.308/7.62x51 148 grain load

[bug_eyedmonster]

Hi All,


I have some 148 grain .30 cal BT bullets, I believe they are pulled M80 bullets, and some new Lapua brass I want to fire form. The bullets are similar to those in the link below, but those show 147, these are labelled 148, and measure between 148.3 to 149 grains. I haven't found much data in terms of loads for this other than stuff for auto loaders (this is for a bolt gun). The barrel is a 16.5" 1:10, and my plans were to run 41.5 grains of Varget. I found a few loads for Hornady 150 grain SST bullets, so I was planning on loading for something similar. Should that work okay? My barrel measured at 2.1830" with a bullet comparator, I planned to load to 2.1810" or a COAL of 2.8330" since the chamber measured 2.8350". Thanks in advance for your help.

https://www.theamericanmarksman.com/7.62-M80-Ball-Bullets-147-Grain-500-CT.html

[FLIGHT762]

It will work, but 41.5 gr. of Varget is a little anemic. I use 46.0 gr. Varget for a 155 OTM in a bolt gun.

M-80 pulls may not be very accurate due to the way they were pulled. Some of the pull down methods squeeze the bullet hard enough to distort them and they won't be accurate. You'll just have to try them to see.

I have some 150 M2 FMJ pulls that are horrible.

[bug_eyedmonster]

It will work, but 41.5 gr. of Varget is a little anemic. I use 46.0 gr. Varget for a 155 OTM in a bolt gun.

M-80 pulls may not be very accurate due to the way they were pulled. Some of the pull down methods squeeze the bullet hard enough to distort them and they won't be accurate. You'll just have to try them to see.

I have some 150 M2 FMJ pulls that are horrible.

Thank you for your response!

I know going into it they are not going to be the most accurate, but, it should work just fine. These are going to be the first rounds out the rifle to get a rough sight-in and to fire form the brass. I have some other bullets in mind once the brass has been formed and can be re-sized properly. I looked over quite a few, I have 1,000 of these bullets and they aren't horrible from what I can see. As for the load, the Hornady book gave a VERY low powder value, about five grains less than all the others, so I was just trying to play it safe. I think the starting for Hornady was 35.9 gr. for the SST bullet, and the Hogdgon manual for the Nosler 150 BT bullet was starting at 44 grains. What would a safe amount to load be for a brand new barrel?


Jerry

[FLIGHT762]

You need to find the "Safe" amount for yourself. Take a look at the data from the sources and work up from there.

I told you what I use. Don't start there.

You are in the ballpark.

[bug_eyedmonster]

You need to find the "Safe" amount for yourself. Take a look at the data from the sources and work up from there.

I told you what I use. Don't start there.

You are in the ballpark.

Okay, stupid question. If that's the case, should I just start at a minimal value and cycle the brass through then? I'm not looking for .5 MOA here, I'm just looking to get rounds down a fresh barrel and get the brass sized for the SMK bullets. I just want to be on paper at 100 yards and get things going for a ladder load with once-fired brass. I just figured, from what I read, the 41.5 grains of Varget would be a decent amount to plow through this. Thanks again for your time and help.


Jerry

[FLIGHT762]

If you want to start at the 41.5 grain load, do it. You will be fine.

I've been reloading for several decades. I look at the data and usually start 5%-10% below the listed maximum.

Sometimes, I work up and may go over book maximum, sometimes below.

Your rifle and brass will tell you when to stop and back off. Learning to recognize pressure indications is a necessary part of being safe in the reloading process.

[divingin]

A mid-range load for a 150 gr bullet will be fine. Start there (or lower) and work up (if desired) based on how it shoots and how your brass looks.

[bug_eyedmonster]

A mid-range load for a 150 gr bullet will be fine. Start there (or lower) and work up (if desired) based on how it shoots and how your brass looks.

I plan to load the 100 cases and be one and done with these bullets until I need to fire form more brass. These bullets were initially purchased to load for my scar 17, but the brass gets smashed pretty good coming out of that rifle, so I'm just trying to re-purpose these bullets. Range time is at a premium these days, so I don't want to load 10 and go back and forth. I'm just going to load somewhere between the two data sets I have in my books and pray it works out okay at this point.


Jerry

[Metal God]

They don’t need to be fire formed. All factory new ammo is using brand new brass and the match stuff does just fine . Unless you’re a bench rest shooter load the bullets you want to load . I wouldn’t waste Varget on those crap bullets either . Those are plinking bullets and if you’re going to work up a load for them , I’d recommend you use the powder you Ultimately plan to use with those bullets . Namely an easy metering powder like a ball powder . This way you can easily just throw the charges later . YMMV

[bug_eyedmonster]

Very valid point. But, how much variation would there be when testing ladder loads with new brass compared to fire-formed/once fired brass in terms of pressure?

I have been second guessing this whole thing and might just wait for the SMK 175 grain bullets.


Jerry

[Metal God]

How new are you to bottleneck rifle cartridge reloading ?

The barrel is a 16.5" 1:10, and my plans were to run 41.5 grains of Varget.

Where did you come up with that load ? I know you saw it somewhere but how did you conclude that's a good start load for your rifle ? Hodgdon says start above 42gr while Hornady has a start load in the 35/36gr area .

Very valid point. But, how much variation would there be when testing ladder loads with new brass compared to fire-formed/once fired brass in terms of pressure?

Zero , because pressure is based on the expanded case stuck to the chamber walls . That's why there is no sizing min/max from head to datum in the manuals because it does not effect pressure . Max pressure is obtained after the case has fully expanded .

COAL of 2.8330" since the chamber measured 2.8350"

You're getting close to mag length I believe . Make sure they fit before you load a bunch up .

[NoHeavyHitter]

"Pulls" range in quality from poor to excellent. If you have choice, buy blems instead of pulls as blemish is normally cosmetic in the way of some discoloration.

Working up 7.62x51 (not .308 commercial) loads for my M1A and .308 Garand, I use 41.5gr IMR4895 under a ~148gr FMJ - which duplicated the military load in my rifles. It's a bit "softer" than normal full-house .308 commercial loads. Since you are fire-forming, this load will shoot nice without beating the hell out of the brass that you are trying to work on.

[bug_eyedmonster]

How new are you to bottleneck rifle cartridge reloading ?



Where did you come up with that load ? I know you saw it somewhere but how did you conclude that's a good start load for your rifle ? Hodgdon says start above 42gr while Hornady has a start load in the 35/36gr area .



Zero , because pressure is based on the expanded case stuck to the chamber walls . That's why there is no sizing min/max from head to datum in the manuals because it does not effect pressure . Max pressure is obtained after the case has fully expanded .



You're getting close to mag length I believe . Make sure they fit before you load a bunch up .

I thought it was rather obvious, I am 100% new to bottleneck rifle reloading. I've read books/manuals and watched videos. The info I have gathered lead me to believe this would be rather safe. Of the four books I have, only two have anything close to what I'm loading, which are the same two you referenced. As for fitment, I've measured my chamber with a bullet comparator, and I am loading to .002" less than that for lead core bullets.

"Pulls" range in quality from poor to excellent. If you have choice, buy blems instead of pulls as blemish is normally cosmetic in the way of some discoloration.

Working up 7.62x51 (not .308 commercial) loads for my M1A and .308 Garand, I use 41.5gr IMR4895 under a ~148gr FMJ - which duplicated the military load in my rifles. It's a bit "softer" than normal full-house .308 commercial loads. Since you are fire-forming, this load will shoot nice without beating the hell out of the brass that you are trying to work on.

I think we are on similar pages. Most of the load data I found was for auto-loaders as well. I may reconsider my powder and bullet choice, but I have no other use for these bullets, and they seem in very good shape for pulls.

Thank you both for your replies and input.

Jerry

[Metal God]

I thought it was rather obvious, I am 100% new to bottleneck rifle reloading.

Yes it did appear so but you seem to be worried about more advance reloading issues . When new stick to the fundamentals , reloading procedures . Right now you just want to make sure you don't blow your self up lol . This means getting a system down with checks a balances to reduce the probability of mistakes .

As for charge weight , NEVER fail to start at the recommended minimum charge . Now like my example above where one manuals start load is way below others . you can go with what ever the bullet manufacture recommends or you can start at the lowest minimum and work up from there in 1% increments of max charge . Meaning if the max charge is going to be in the 40+gr area your charge weights go up in .4gr increments . anything less then .3gr increments are a waste unless you have a high end scale . If you do a .2gr increment and your scale is only good to +/- .1 gr . this means your charge could be .1gr , .2gr or .3gr again unless you're a benchrester don't sweat the small stuff especially when just starting out . It's going to take you close to a year to understand your loads , rifle and your shooting before you start producing top quality ammo . At first you just want nice safe reliable ammo . Later you can move onto more advanced techniques .

Here's what a brand new load work up look for me when working with components I've never worked with before



Note that I do start at the manuals minimum but I only load a couple rounds at those lower charges and I jump up in charges quicker . This load was intended for medium to longer ranges so I know I'm not going to want those lower charges but still need to be sure my pressure is still good when I start . So I only load one or two at the lower start loads then as I get closer to the charges I expect my final charge to be closer to . I load more rounds per charge to see how they group . This also reduces the amount of components used , no need throwing bullets down range for no reason .

[Wykyd]

I bought some of these but I searched for non magnetic ones to be a little easier on the barrel. I separated them by weight in .2gr increments just to get a little more accuracy if possible. All this was surplus cheap items to load a plinking round for my AR10's where im happy with 2 MOA at 100 yards.

Please work up your own data but my load is;
AR10 16 barrel, AR10 20 barrel and rem 700 5r
FC once fired brass I bought on here trimmed to 2.010 COL 2.795
SB large primer
43.0gr WC846(BLC-2)
~147gr FMJ non magnetic pulled ball projectiles