45-70 help

[bhilliker@comcast.net]

Hello fellow gunners, started loading 45-70 recently and here is where I am at. I bought a box of Hornaday 350 gr flat nose bullets. Tried IMR 4895---that about drove the screw in my shoulder out the other side. Switched to Trail Boss and am much happier. Here is my problem----I was unable to find anymore Hornaday bullets and I need 4 boxes. I bought some 405 grain cast bullets from Meister. I am using a rock chucker. When I try and load these bullets at least 1 out of 3 get ripples in the brass---apparently from the plastic bands on the bullets. I have tried dozens of adjustments and going as slow as possible but same results. Pulled my 50 rounds of the Hornaday bullets, changed the powder and loaded those with zero problems. Tried more cast bullets and got the rippling. GRRR----I am at a loss and could use some guidance. I have 170 pieces to load. Can't find Hornaday bullets and have 250 of the meister bullets that I'd like to be able to use. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[Yetiultimate]

Sounds like the cast bullets are a little oversize, compared to the jacketed. Measure the diameter of the cast bullet with calipers, then get a Lyman M die and an expander plug from NOE that is 0.001 smaller than the diameter of the cast. It will open your cases enough to seat the cast bullet but you will retain a little neck tension.

[elk hunter]

When you tried to load the cast bullets did you flair the case mouth?

[bruce381]

normally cast bullets are 1-2 thousands larger than the jacketed version to allow grip to the rifling and reduce gas blow by so yeah they are too large for the what case expander you are using.

[bhilliker@comcast.net]

OK---I don't have any loose jacketed to compare to the cast. Mouth case is flared and smooth. Case length is all consistent. The Lymn M die option might work as I'm guessing the cast is probably a fraction larger than the jacketed. I'm using RCBS dies -- maybe the expander is the problem. That would be consistent with the issue of one bullet working and the other not. Considering I cannot find any Hornaday bullets at the moment then a new expander die might be the fix. Thanks all

['ol shooter]

oregon trail 45-70 350gr.JPG

https://oregontrailbullets.com/xcart/

I have been using their bullets in various calibers for several years, a very fine product.

[bruce381]

" maybe the expander is the problem"

yeah it should be maybe 1-2 thousands bigger for cast bullets then the case would not grab and stick to it then as you continue to seat the case will buckle and wrinkle.

[elk hunter]

The case mouth has to be opened up enough to start the bullet, for me I like to have the bullet go into the case 1/2 way to the first grease grove. That's a little bit more than recommended but it works for me. Winchester cases are thinner at the wall than Starline, yes it makes a difference.

[bhilliker@comcast.net]

OK---so I had another go at this. First thing I did was pull apart 116 rounds I already did. I resized then flared the necks----very very slightly as if I made a normal size flare the bullets would fall right in. Short story, I got the adjustments right and loaded 266 rounds. Bullets are tight, light crimp, no rippled cases. I was able to salvage nearly all the cases with ripples after resizing. This was a success! Thanks everyone for your input. Just had to regurgitate the process and start over.

[homers]

Sound like a flair issue. Also, how many grains did you load 4895? There are many mild recoil loads for the 45-70. Keep the velocity down and recoil isn't bad.

[bhilliker@comcast.net]

My first go with 45-70 I loaded 50 rounds with 52 grains of IMR. I shot 1 round. I pulled the rest and went with 15 grains of Trail Boss. Much happier!! Flair issue crimp issue maybe both. Just had to take a step back regroup and start over. Got it resolved. The majority of my loading has been on a progressive. Sometimes getting the seating crimp die set on a single stage, when I haven't used it much gives me some issues with the fine tuning. And it appears the fine tuning was giving me the problems.

[elk hunter]

A cast 405 gr soft lead bullet using 15 gr. of unique works very nice in my in my Marlin.

[Tyke8319]

Try Accurate 5744. Great for reproducing the old time loads.