Recommend precision dies

[JagerDog]

I went the bushing die route first years ago and then bought the Redding body die & the Lee Collet die to try that out.

Lee Collet and body die makes as accurate ammo as the bushing die & at a lower cost. Nice to use the Lee Collet a couple of times if you want and then F/L with the body die or F/L and Collet die every time, gives you a good option.

When a friend asked my opinion on an accurate die set for his new 6.5 CM, I had him buy a Redding Body die, Lee Collet die and a Forster micrometer seating die. This is a good way to go.

I'm sorry three dies to do the work of two?? No thanks.

Forster bushing bump
Forster micrometer seater
and be done. While I agree redding is a great choice. I can't endorse Lee for anything considered precision.

I will tell you If David Tubb ever decided to start making dies for other calibers I'd start replacing my dies. best dies I've ever used and also the most expensive too.

Not really. Only need the body and shoulder done as needed.

And if we're talking "precision", one extra step is hardly objectionable.

Bushing dies have that "extra step" as well if your brass isn't all identical. Forming the OD to induce an ID has it's pitfalls.

I like the collet die on my bolt guns. Ever use one? But then I only have one "target gun " (.243), so maybe my expectations aren't shared.

[kcstott]

Not really. Only need the body and shoulder done as needed.

And if we're talking "precision", one extra step is hardly objectionable.

Bushing dies have that "extra step" as well if your brass isn't all identical. Forming the OD to induce an ID has it's pitfalls.

I like the collet die on my bolt guns. Ever use one? But then I only have one "target gun " (.243), so maybe my expectations aren't shared.

I have one set of Lee dies and they are not mine and they load ammo that I don't use. so No I have not tried one nor will spend the money trying to find out anything. I don't have time to waste chasing my tail with inferior or incorrect geometry dies. I want tools I can trust. from manufactures that will respond when there is an issue.

Precision reloading requires precision brass. Match brass, and I don't mean Hornady match or American eagle match or even lake city match. I mean Peterson, Nosler, Norma, & Lapua in that order. We can go down the rabbit hole if you like but Peterson brass produces a consistent neck wall that only varies a few tenths of a thou. So forming an ID with the OD is fine. especially when you modify your bushings or make new bushing from scratch to suit. Case weight is spot on too and so are all the other dimensions. You do find the two or three errant cases out of 500. but that's a great tolerance considering most brass is hit or miss 10% in 100 piece lots. Then you anneal after every shot, Measure the shoulder bump .002" using a barrel stub and the same reamer for the chamber, use .002" or less neck tension and you don't seat past the neck shoulder junction you eliminate a lot of issues.

[Dave626]

i tried Redding competitioon FL bushing dies, the neck runout is everywhere even i neck turn. just this die was over 100, not including the bushing was like 20 bux a pcs.

Redding Body Die = $50 bux,
Lee Collet Die = 35-40 bux.

This combination i use gave me the less neck runout and bullet runout (i use ambor press with LE wilson seating ambor die.

I load this for bolt, not semi. Semi you might need more neck tension. Lee Collet only give u .001 neck tension.

[JagerDog]

I have one set of Lee dies and they are not mine and they load ammo that I don't use. so No I have not tried one nor will spend the money trying to find out anything. I don't have time to waste chasing my tail with inferior or incorrect geometry dies. I want tools I can trust. from manufactures that will respond when there is an issue.

Precision reloading requires precision brass. Match brass, and I don't mean Hornady match or American eagle match or even lake city match. I mean Peterson, Nosler, Norma, & Lapua in that order. We can go down the rabbit hole if you like but Peterson brass produces a consistent neck wall that only varies a few tenths of a thou. So forming an ID with the OD is fine. especially when you modify your bushings or make new bushing from scratch to suit. Case weight is spot on too and so are all the other dimensions. You do find the two or three errant cases out of 500. but that's a great tolerance considering most brass is hit or miss 10% in 100 piece lots. Then you anneal after every shot, Measure the shoulder bump .002" using a barrel stub and the same reamer for the chamber, use .002" or less neck tension and you don't seat past the neck shoulder junction you eliminate a lot of issues.

So basically ignorance (never seen or used)...cuz Lee. There's really not a lot to a collet die to cause issues, but you wouldn't know that.

The balance: modifying bushings, making custom bushings, annealing, shoulder bumping, stub barrel, reamers, etc, but OMG...an "extra" die is so painful. But oh my time is tooooo valuable.

I think this needs to go back to what is OP shooting and what are his expectations. What's his experience? What kind of glass is he pursuing?

[freonr22]

How many neck tensions do you use? Wheres Guffey?

[freonr22]

I just read several references to neck tensions.

How many neck tensions do you use?

Wheres Guffey?

[MongooseV8]

Lol yes high quality neck tensions are required for precision shooting. At least 17 tensions at a minimum.

[kcstott]

So basically ignorance (never seen or used)...cuz Lee. There's really not a lot to a collet die to cause issues, but you wouldn't know that.

The balance: modifying bushings, making custom bushings, annealing, shoulder bumping, stub barrel, reamers, etc, but OMG...an "extra" die is so painful. But oh my time is tooooo valuable.

I think this needs to go back to what is OP shooting and what are his expectations. What's his experience? What kind of glass is he pursuing?

The time i invest in my tooling is a one shot deal. I buy quality products that can be tailored to what I need. No die is perfect and some are less than perfect than others.

Lee die's have loose tolerances and very iffy adjustments. Granted they did me very well early on in my loading hobby. I have since learned that they are the yugo of reloading dies. They will get the job done but the trip is not going to be easy.

No one is winning NRA high power, XTC, NRA F Class or NBRSA with Lee equipment?

Lee is good gear... to start with. I'm beyond that point and have been for two decades. I spend money on good gear. and yes even the good gear I have to tailor to work as I have no intention to neck turn. So you can interpret how I spend my time anyway you like. My point was and is I will not add an extra step to the loading process that has to be done every time. Modifications are a one and done and yes you spend time on the front end to recover it on the back.

As for target rifles. I don't own any. My rifles are Competition rifles or they are for a specific hunt. And yes I compete with them.

[kcstott]

I just read several references to neck tensions.

How many neck tensions do you use?

Wheres Guffey?

Well I try to run .002" neck tentions or a little less.

[vinconco]

The most expensive and precise die made will not produce good results if it isn't aligned properly in the tool head. Lee dies, by design, make this misalignment less of a factor.
Good brass and proper technique in setting up the dies go a long way in precision reloading.

[JagerDog]

Lol yes high quality neck tensions are required for precision shooting. At least 17 tensions at a minimum.

Wow! I only use 6.37 tensions as I found a "node" there, but rifles are all different.

[JagerDog]

The time i invest in my tooling is a one shot deal. I buy quality products that can be tailored to what I need. No die is perfect and some are less than perfect than others.

Lee die's have loose tolerances and very iffy adjustments. Granted they did me very well early on in my loading hobby. I have since learned that they are the yugo of reloading dies. They will get the job done but the trip is not going to be easy.

No one is winning NRA high power, XTC, NRA F Class or NBRSA with Lee equipment?

Lee is good gear... to start with. I'm beyond that point and have been for two decades. I spend money on good gear. and yes even the good gear I have to tailor to work as I have no intention to neck turn. So you can interpret how I spend my time anyway you like. My point was and is I will not add an extra step to the loading process that has to be done every time. Modifications are a one and done and yes you spend time on the front end to recover it on the back.

As for target rifles. I don't own any. My rifles are Competition rifles or they are for a specific hunt. And yes I compete with them.

I doubt they're doing it with box stock "Ruger Precision Rifles" either.

Again...what is OP using and what are his expectations?

A body die, FL die and (Lee) collet die is not a bad solution for many. The body and FL dies are not used every loading (unless you're into that sort of thing).

I presume this competition involves targets?

Hunting I care more about utmost reliability vs. utmost accuracy. My hunting barrels aren't likely to see much gain from some of the more painstaking operations.

[mtenenhaus]

i certainly do not have the experience of so many on this forum but i've been very pleased with the Forster dies.

The company has been great to work with and for a small fee they will hone the dies to your specific fire formed cases and the projectiles you choose to use.

I think it would have been most cost effective and efficient had i first shot factory loads and saved 5 fire formed cases and sent them off with 5 brand new projectiles that i envisioned using....and then purchased the dies so that i wouldn't have to pay shipping twice

I will say i wish i had spent just a little more money to purchase the micrometer format of projectile seating die....i've been trying to optimize distance of the ogive to the rifle lands with a variety of different projectiles and the micrometer would have made it a little less hit and miss.

[JagerDog]

i certainly do not have the experience of so many on this forum but i've been very pleased with the Forster dies.

The company has been great to work with and for a small fee they will hone the dies to your specific fire formed cases and the projectiles you choose to use.

I think it would have been most cost effective and efficient had i first shot factory loads and saved 5 fire formed cases and sent them off with 5 brand new projectiles that i envisioned using....and then purchased the dies so that i wouldn't have to pay shipping twice

I will say i wish i had spent just a little more money to purchase the micrometer format of projectile seating die....i've been trying to optimize distance of the ogive to the rifle lands with a variety of different projectiles and the micrometer would have made it a little less hit and miss.

I can't disagree with that. Anyone who's done much development will tell you 1) powder charge, 2) seating depth. Most the rest is very small increments of change.

The rabbit hole is rather endless and rifles are unique.

[RandyD]

The time i invest in my tooling is a one shot deal. I buy quality products that can be tailored to what I need. No die is perfect and some are less than perfect than others.

Lee die's have loose tolerances and very iffy adjustments. Granted they did me very well early on in my loading hobby. I have since learned that they are the yugo of reloading dies. They will get the job done but the trip is not going to be easy.

No one is winning NRA high power, XTC, NRA F Class or NBRSA with Lee equipment?

Lee is good gear... to start with. I'm beyond that point and have been for two decades. I spend money on good gear. and yes even the good gear I have to tailor to work as I have no intention to neck turn. So you can interpret how I spend my time anyway you like. My point was and is I will not add an extra step to the loading process that has to be done every time. Modifications are a one and done and yes you spend time on the front end to recover it on the back.

As for target rifles. I don't own any. My rifles are Competition rifles or they are for a specific hunt. And yes I compete with them.

I second what kcstott said above.

For me, Redding dies have been sufficiently precise. I do not shoot benchrest. I used to compete in high power cross the course competitions and Redding was the dies I used, and I never had a shot fly outside of my aiming circle where I contributed the errant shot to the ammo. I also use Redding dies for my hunting rifles, which I demand precision. Overall, I have been very satisfied with Redding dies.