Case forming questions

[DGoodale]

I have a bunch of 22-250 cases that I've been using for quite some time. After annealing, the cases do not feed well, it's a Rem 700 varmint. New cases feed fine.
Prior to this I was just neck sizing and they worked great, they probably have about 6-8 firings on them. Now, having been annealed, even after full length resizing using either a Forster comp FL die or a Redding FL die they still don't fit well and take some effort to work the bolt. Will these fire form back to the chamber or are these cases toast? I don't need a stuck bolt.
Here's a pic of the cases after FL sizing. The ring is the only contact on the case. I used some layout fluid and this is the only place where it's making contact.

[sofbak]

Is your sizing die contacting the shell holder and the end of the stroke? It looks like the die is stopping "short" and leaving a short length of the case un-sized. The case taper should continue up to the shoulder and it appears that a little of it is left straight walled instead if tapered.

jmho...

[baih777]

Adjust your die tighter 1/16th of a turn at a time till your cases cycle.

[DGoodale]

Is your sizing die contacting the shell holder and the end of the stroke? It looks like the die is stopping "short" and leaving a short length of the case un-sized. The case taper should continue up to the shoulder and it appears that a little of it is left straight walled instead if tapered.

jmho...

Die makes good contact with shell plate. It's a cam-over single stage.

[DGoodale]

Adjust your die tighter 1/16th of a turn at a time till your cases cycle.

I'll try, but if I go much more it won't cam over, which isn't the worst but just jars to a stop at the top of the stroke.
Oh the case fits and looks good in a go/no go gauge.

[DGoodale]

Is your sizing die contacting the shell holder and the end of the stroke? It looks like the die is stopping "short" and leaving a short length of the case un-sized. The case taper should continue up to the shoulder and it appears that a little of it is left straight walled instead if tapered.

jmho...

Adjust your die tighter 1/16th of a turn at a time till your cases cycle.

I'll try, but if I go much more it won't cam over, which isn't the worst but just jars to a stop at the top of the stroke.
Oh the case fits and looks good in a go/no go gauge.

Well, my apologies. This is one time I'm glad to be wrong. I guess I should go back to the basics. I tightened the die down and test fed in the gun before and after and it solved the problem. The brass would barely go into battery before and after it went right in. Thanks! Dave

[bsumoba]

that's why FL resizing is the only way to go. At some point with neck sizing, you will need to FL size.

[sofbak]

^^^OK. I think the message in your vid is "Full Length Resize-always."

But several comments in the vid lead me to a question. Are all these elite marksmen using custom machined dies to get that .002" clearance many of them mentioned?

Seems that the SAAMI tolerances on case and chamber would make that .002" a difficult relation to achieve with commercially sold rifles and dies-unless you got lucky or handpicked each unit to match.

[bsumoba]

^^^OK. I think the message in your vid is "Full Length Resize-always."

But several comments in the vid lead me to a question. Are all these elite marksmen using custom machined dies to get that .002" clearance many of them mentioned?

Seems that the SAAMI tolerances on case and chamber would make that .002" a difficult relation to achieve with commercially sold rifles and dies-unless you got lucky or handpicked each unit to match.

0.002" headspace clearance can be achieved with any die (assuming the chamber and die was made properly). For example, if you buy Whidden 6.5 creedmoore dies and use it for a 6.5 creedmoore chamberred Ruger RPR, you can easily bump the shoulder back 0.002". You do not need custom dies per se.

The reason for FL resizing is two fold:

* It provides clearance in the chamber to allow for the brass case to expand and therefore, contract, making it easier to eject the case.

* When sizing a case in a FL die, the case will be sized the same way every time. This is as consistent as you can get. When neck sizing, you assume the case expands and contracts consistently every time. This assumption is debunked because one typically has to FL size a case at some point because the case itself will not fit in the chamber or the case gets harder and harder to extract or close the bolt on.

[sofbak]

So it's headspace clearance. When I heard that number mentioned many times I was also thinking of diametral clearance between case body and chamber wall.

Thanx! But please be careful with that phrase "b*mp the sh**ld*r-or you-know-who might show up😨.

[ar15barrels]

Die makes good contact with shell plate. It's a cam-over single stage.

WITH the case in the shelholder?
Put a flashlight behind the ram facing towards you.
Place a case in the shellholder and run it all the way up.
Look between the bottom of the die and the top of the shellholder.

[bsumoba]

So it's headspace clearance. When I heard that number mentioned many times I was also thinking of diametral clearance between case body and chamber wall.

Thanx! But please be careful with that phrase "b*mp the sh**ld*r-or you-know-who might show up😨.

The body itself is also sized down. In my die, the portion just below the shoulder is sized down from its fired size, about 0.002" (0.001" on each side). Generally speaking, this follows all the way to the web area of the case.

[DGoodale]

WITH the case in the shelholder?
Put a flashlight behind the ram facing towards you.
Place a case in the shellholder and run it all the way up.
Look between the bottom of the die and the top of the shellholder.

The shell holder was empty and made what I thought to be good contact with the die. However after extending the die a little bit more and requiring a bit more force to cam over it successfully resize the case.

[ar15barrels]

The shell holder was empty and made what I thought to be good contact with the die.
However after extending the die a little bit more and requiring a bit more force to cam over it successfully resize the case.

Do you now understand that the PRESS FRAME stretches and the press linkage compresses during sizing and that there WAS a gap between your die and shellholder during sizing?
That gap is what made it possible to size the case MORE by screwing the die down more.

[sofbak]

The body itself is also sized down. In my die, the portion just below the shoulder is sized down from its fired size, about 0.002" (0.001" on each side). Generally speaking, this follows all the way to the web area of the case.

I still don't see how you hold .002 to .003" clearance.

Looking at SAAMI spec drawings for 6.5 creedmore, the case dia at the shoulder is 0.4620". The chamber dia at the shoulder is 0.4630". Ten thou "nominal" diametral clearance.

If I'm using a commercial die made to SAAMI specs with a rifle chamber reamed ro SAAMI specs, how do I close that clearance of .010" down to your stated clearance of .002"?