429DE figuring out reloading data

[jkuengineer]

Hey everyone, so for my mark 19 desert eagle i decided to get the 429DE caliber which is basically a 50AE brass necked down for a 429 bullet. the ammo i bought comes wither 210 or 240gr and although lee makes dies for it already, there is no reloading data. how does one go about figuring this out? i know that starline makes the cases and the ammo is made by glacier for magnum research but thats pretty much all.

my thought process:

-disassemble one ammo measure grains inside.
-assuming it would be too hard to tell what powder it is just by looking at it. will see if the amount falls between h110 weight between the 50 and 44 mag using the same powder
-take a look at reloading books and graph/chart same powders for necked down cases. example: 40sw and 357 sig. the 357sig is a 40 necked down. compare same powder brand and categorize what happens when cases are necked down and what changes.
-do this for a few more calibers until i notice a trend and can categorize it.
-apply findings to this caliber

need help from all experienced re-loaders does what i typed above seem reasonable, logical and safe?

thank you all in advance for your time.
-Roman

[jkuengineer]

for reference:

[ar15barrels]

Hey everyone, so for my mark 19 desert eagle i decided to get the 429DE caliber which is basically a 50AE brass necked down for a 429 bullet. the ammo i bought comes wither 210 or 240gr and although lee makes dies for it already, there is no reloading data. how does one go about figuring this out? i know that starline makes the cases and the ammo is made by glacier for magnum research but thats pretty much all.

my thought process:

-disassemble one ammo measure grains inside.
-assuming it would be too hard to tell what powder it is just by looking at it. will see if the amount falls between h110 weight between the 50 and 44 mag using the same powder
-take a look at reloading books and graph/chart same powders for necked down cases. example: 40sw and 357 sig. the 357sig is a 40 necked down. compare same powder brand and categorize what happens when cases are necked down and what changes.
-do this for a few more calibers until i notice a trend and can categorize it.
-apply findings to this caliber

need help from all experienced re-loaders does what i typed above seem reasonable, logical and safe?

Your method is not safe.
There are too many variables that you will not be accounting for.

If you know the powder capacity in grains of water as well as the case weight and dimensions, the cartridge can be modeled in Quickload and then load data calculations can be made.
You will still have to test the loads and see how they compare to the computer model, but Quickload will get you very close right from the start.

For example, I took a wild guess at 44gr of water capacity and here is what QL says with a 240gr XTP over H110:

Cartridge          : .429 Desert Eagle
Bullet             : .430, 240, Hornady HP/XTP 44200
Useable Case Capaci: 31.086 grain H2O = 2.018 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.610 inch = 40.89 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H110

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.714% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-07.1   85    26.00   1324     934   27076   9239     77.0    0.663
-06.4   85    26.20   1336     951   27690   9357     77.5    0.656
-05.7   86    26.40   1348     968   28318   9474     78.0    0.649
-05.0   87    26.60   1360     985   28960   9592     78.4    0.641
-04.3   87    26.80   1372    1003   29617   9710     78.9    0.634
-03.6   88    27.00   1384    1020   30289   9827     79.4    0.627
-02.9   88    27.20   1396    1038   30976   9945     79.9    0.620  ! Near Maximum !
-02.1   89    27.40   1408    1056   31679  10062     80.4    0.613  ! Near Maximum !
-01.4   90    27.60   1420    1075   32398  10178     80.9    0.607  ! Near Maximum !
-00.7   90    27.80   1432    1093   33133  10295     81.3    0.600  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   91    28.00   1445    1112   33885  10411     81.8    0.593  ! Near Maximum !
+00.7   92    28.20   1457    1131   34654  10527     82.3    0.587  ! Near Maximum !
+01.4   92    28.40   1469    1150   35442  10643     82.7    0.580  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.1   93    28.60   1481    1170   36247  10758     83.2    0.574  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.9   94    28.80   1494    1189   37071  10873     83.6    0.568  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6   94    29.00   1506    1209   37915  10987     84.1    0.561  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     91    28.00   1554    1288   41473  11261     90.1    0.539  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     91    28.00   1318     926   26811   9210     71.2    0.662

[jkuengineer]

Your method is not safe.
There are too many variables that you will not be accounting for.

If you know the powder capacity in grains of water as well as the case weight and dimensions, the cartridge can be modeled in Quickload and then load data calculations can be made.
You will still have to test the loads and see how they compare to the computer model, but Quickload will get you very close right from the start.

For example, I took a wild guess at 44gr of water capacity and here is what QL says with a 240gr XTP over H110:

Cartridge          : .429 Desert Eagle
Bullet             : .430, 240, Hornady HP/XTP 44200
Useable Case Capaci: 31.086 grain H2O = 2.018 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.610 inch = 40.89 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H110

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.714% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-07.1   85    26.00   1324     934   27076   9239     77.0    0.663
-06.4   85    26.20   1336     951   27690   9357     77.5    0.656
-05.7   86    26.40   1348     968   28318   9474     78.0    0.649
-05.0   87    26.60   1360     985   28960   9592     78.4    0.641
-04.3   87    26.80   1372    1003   29617   9710     78.9    0.634
-03.6   88    27.00   1384    1020   30289   9827     79.4    0.627
-02.9   88    27.20   1396    1038   30976   9945     79.9    0.620  ! Near Maximum !
-02.1   89    27.40   1408    1056   31679  10062     80.4    0.613  ! Near Maximum !
-01.4   90    27.60   1420    1075   32398  10178     80.9    0.607  ! Near Maximum !
-00.7   90    27.80   1432    1093   33133  10295     81.3    0.600  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   91    28.00   1445    1112   33885  10411     81.8    0.593  ! Near Maximum !
+00.7   92    28.20   1457    1131   34654  10527     82.3    0.587  ! Near Maximum !
+01.4   92    28.40   1469    1150   35442  10643     82.7    0.580  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.1   93    28.60   1481    1170   36247  10758     83.2    0.574  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.9   94    28.80   1494    1189   37071  10873     83.6    0.568  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6   94    29.00   1506    1209   37915  10987     84.1    0.561  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     91    28.00   1554    1288   41473  11261     90.1    0.539  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     91    28.00   1318     926   26811   9210     71.2    0.662

[golfish]

Your method is not safe.
There are too many variables that you will not be accounting for.

If you know the powder capacity in grains of water as well as the case weight and dimensions, the cartridge can be modeled in Quickload and then load data calculations can be made.
You will still have to test the loads and see how they compare to the computer model, but Quickload will get you very close right from the start.

For example, I took a wild guess at 44gr of water capacity and here is what QL says with a 240gr XTP over H110:

Cartridge          : .429 Desert Eagle
Bullet             : .430, 240, Hornady HP/XTP 44200
Useable Case Capaci: 31.086 grain H2O = 2.018 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.610 inch = 40.89 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H110

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.714% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-07.1   85    26.00   1324     934   27076   9239     77.0    0.663
-06.4   85    26.20   1336     951   27690   9357     77.5    0.656
-05.7   86    26.40   1348     968   28318   9474     78.0    0.649
-05.0   87    26.60   1360     985   28960   9592     78.4    0.641
-04.3   87    26.80   1372    1003   29617   9710     78.9    0.634
-03.6   88    27.00   1384    1020   30289   9827     79.4    0.627
-02.9   88    27.20   1396    1038   30976   9945     79.9    0.620  ! Near Maximum !
-02.1   89    27.40   1408    1056   31679  10062     80.4    0.613  ! Near Maximum !
-01.4   90    27.60   1420    1075   32398  10178     80.9    0.607  ! Near Maximum !
-00.7   90    27.80   1432    1093   33133  10295     81.3    0.600  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   91    28.00   1445    1112   33885  10411     81.8    0.593  ! Near Maximum !
+00.7   92    28.20   1457    1131   34654  10527     82.3    0.587  ! Near Maximum !
+01.4   92    28.40   1469    1150   35442  10643     82.7    0.580  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.1   93    28.60   1481    1170   36247  10758     83.2    0.574  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.9   94    28.80   1494    1189   37071  10873     83.6    0.568  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6   94    29.00   1506    1209   37915  10987     84.1    0.561  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     91    28.00   1554    1288   41473  11261     90.1    0.539  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     91    28.00   1318     926   26811   9210     71.2    0.662

Wow, very interesting. Thank you for the post.....

[jkuengineer]

Wow, very interesting. Thank you for the post.....

[ar15barrels]

Take a fired case.
Weigh the case.
Fill the case with water until the water is perfectly flat at the case mouth.
Tap on the case to get any micro bubbles out and adjust the case to perfectly full if any big bubbles come up.
Weigh the case full of water.
Subtract the weight of the empty case to determine the capacity of the case in grains of water.
That is the universal method for determining how much volume a case has because the volume/weight of water is a constant.