Rough day at the range

[Hans Gruber]

I should have known that this day wasn't going to be rainbows and sunshine when I realized as I was unpacking at the bench that I left my magazines at home. That's right, single load all day through the magwell.

For those of you who are not following my reloading saga, here's a brief recap:

I'm a newby reloader.
I put together some .308 SMK loads that worked great, .5 MOA or better.
I started working up a copper Barnes hunting cartridge because I'd like to take up hog hunting down here in SoCal.
My first go at my Barnes round was pretty bad.

Ok, so this week I put together a bunch with several tweaked variables to see if I could figure out where I needed improvement. My conclusions are:

1. Neck tension - no difference
2. OAL - no difference
3. Brass - no difference

Ok that's poop, looks like I will have to invest in new powder as my next step. Fine, so I'll just put away this stuff and shoot some of my target rounds and call it a day right? Not so fast.

I shoot my first group, about 1.6" @ 100 yards. Ok, good thing I brought my cleaning gear "just in case". I figured that I might have some powder/copper fouling, no problem. I give my rifle a good solid field cleaning with some solvent.

Get back to shooting and I have 4 groups, all 1.3 - 1.5 inches, minimal improvement if any (margin of error). I don't bother shooting the rest of my ammo, pack up and go home, stopping in at the store to pick up some WipeOut at the suggestion of the fine gentleman at the counter.

So either:

1. I have some seriously intense copper fouling that I couldn't/didn't get out in the field. If that's the case, so much for the "virtually no copper fouling" claim on the Barnes website for the TSX.

2. I may have a dodgy scope? Less likely but it is a possibility I guess. The rings are still tight. Anyone know how to test to see if my scope is subtly blown? My groups are left, right, diagonal... all over the place.

Either one of these sends me back to square one with the TSX of course, well except for pressure levels I suppose.

My rifle is soaking in WipeOut as I type.

!@#$

[rabagley]

You're disappointed with 1.5" groups in a hunting round/rifle? I wish I had your problems, dude. Then again, I've never harvested a game animal at a distance longer than 75 yards, so who knows what I might be willing to take a shot at if I had a .5 MOA hunting rifle.

Have you measured your Barnes TSX's for weight and OAL consistency?

The idea about trying a different powder sounds like a fine idea as well.

[buffybuster]

Sounds like a loose nut behind the trigger......

[Hans Gruber]

You're disappointed with 1.5" groups in a hunting round/rifle? I wish I had your problems, dude. Then again, I've never harvested a game animal at a distance longer than 75 yards, so who knows what I might be willing to take a shot at if I had a .5 MOA hunting rifle.

Have you measured your Barnes TSX's for weight and OAL consistency?

The idea about trying a different powder sounds like a fine idea as well.

Heh, the 1.5" groups are from my "target" round which has shot .5 MOA out of my rifle in the very recent past. So there's definitely something wrong.

I'd be happy with 1.5" out of the TTSX right now honestly. Right now with my powder they're shooting about 2.5 MOA at very best Looking at the guided hunts that I've seen, I would be guaranteed a shot within 200 yards and I'd really hate to miss or lose an animal because my gear isn't up to snuff.

Of course the other option is to just buy a box of the commercial stuff and be done with it, but that's not why I'm reloading I just need to figure this stuff out and get this guy down to 1MOA and I'll be comfortable, not happy, just comfortable. I know what the TSX is capable of and I know that my rifle is up to scratch unless I somehow ruined it within 500 rounds.

[Hans Gruber]

Sounds like a loose nut behind the trigger......

Hah! That could very well be

I kindof doubt that my groups would grow quite so much from an "off" day though. .5MOA is good for me in my newbness. I grumble at .75-1.00, but to shoot consistent 1.5-2.0 with my good ammo means there's something else wrong.

I looked down my bore and the lands look like long pennys...

[buffybuster]

Hah! That could very well be

I kindof doubt that my groups would grow quite so much from an "off" day though. .5MOA is good for me in my newbness. I grumble at .75-1.00, but to shoot consistent 1.5-2.0 with my good ammo means there's something else wrong.

I looked down my bore and the lands look like long pennys...

Some barrels copper foul more than others and those Barnes bullets don't help that.

I try very hard to stay away from the range on weekends...... Inevitably wherever I set up, guys with .50BMG set up on either side of me. My sub-moa groups begin to mysteriously open up to 1.5moa.......

Shoot the match next Saturday at APS... beats going to the range.

[ar15robert]

Could be worse than that.I went to an indoor range got there ready to pay and what the hell i left my .45 at home.

big DUH moment there.

[Darklyte27]

hot and sunny up north 80*F here today

[tankerman]

Not sure if you've read info on the Triple-Shock from Barnes, if not you should.

First, Barnes desgned the different TSX weight bullets for barrels with different rates of twist as well as case size (particularly in .308 dia). Additionally, the TSX has less bearing service and creates lower pressure. I purchased a box of 6mm 85gr TSX when they first came out, the instructions that came with them had different load suggestions for that bullet than my manuals did, charge size was significantly increased.

Obsessing about possible copper fouling isn't going to help you shoot better either. When I work up a hunting and finally get it where I want it to shoot, there's no way in hell I'm going to clean my rifle bore before the hunt. Cleaning it is a sure way to get a flier and miss an animal.

[bruceflinch]

Are you reloading w/ the OAL to the chamber or just factory specs?

[Hans Gruber]

Not sure if you've read info on the Triple-Shock from Barnes, if not you should.

First, Barnes desgned the different TSX weight bullets for barrels with different rates of twist as well as case size (particularly in .308 dia). Additionally, the TSX has less bearing service and creates lower pressure. I purchased a box of 6mm 85gr TSX when they first came out, the instructions that came with them had different load suggestions for that bullet than my manuals did, charge size was significantly increased.

Obsessing about possible copper fouling isn't going to help you shoot better either. When I work up a hunting and finally get it where I want it to shoot, there's no way in hell I'm going to clean my rifle bore before the hunt. Cleaning it is a sure way to get a flier and miss an animal.

Oh yeah, I've been reading and reading and reading. Called Barnes twice even to talk to their techs. First was before my first loads to verify my powder charge range for my workup and the second was to verify that my seating depth to the lands could be the problem. My barrel twist is in the green as they don't recommend 1:10 until the 180g (mine is 1:12).

I'm moreso worried about copper fouling because now my regular target loads are now shooting like crap too (comparatively).

[Hans Gruber]

Are you reloading w/ the OAL to the chamber or just factory specs?

My first go was 0.050 from the lands as Barnes suggested, no go. This time I loaded to .080 which is where my SMK's like to live and the Barnes tech suggested, no go.

[Hans Gruber]

Just a thought, maybe shooting the all copper bullets make your barrel hotter. Make sure you are taking your sweet time before and after each shot. Let the barrel cool down, make sure you have real steady rest and all loads are the same, same bullet weight, same cases, same powder drop, etc.
Just slow it down, take your time. Take a .22lr to plink while the big rifle cools.

Sideline Shooter

Is this a new rifle? Maybe your just going through the barrel break in period. Scrub it really good.

If I were seeing stringing, I'd suspect the barrel getting hot, but I'm seeing divergence all over the place from the start.

At this point I have about 350 rounds down the tube and it shot great until I started playing w/the copper b00letz

[Darklyte27]

I didnt read your long post yet, but just read that you have problems with 1.5 inch groups. are you using a bipod, what are you using to rest the stock?
breathing pattern? rest after shooting a few rds to relax your body.

[Hans Gruber]

I didnt read your long post yet, but just read that you have problems with 1.5 inch groups. are you using a bipod, what are you using to rest the stock?
breathing pattern? rest after shooting a few rds to relax your body.

Heh, in summary in order of events:

1. My target load in my rifle last week = .5 MOA
2. Play with barnes copper bullets with little success.
3. Back to target load = 1.5+ MOA even after field cleaning