Reload .223 with H4895

[GuillermoAntonio]

Hi there, newbie on this matters.
I recently bought an RCBS kit. It came with a Nossler manual, I also bought the kindle version of the new Hornady manual.

I am reloading the following:

Mixed 223 brass mostly PMC
Xtreme bullets .224 FMJ w/cannelure
H4895
Federal small rifle primers.

I bought this powder because I intend to reload .308 as well but had no idea it would be so hard to find any data on 223.
I used the Hogbdon online load data to give me some ideas and then started low,
Just tested 22.5, 23, 23.5, 24, 24.5 and 25 grains.
Since it was raining yesterday and SBGRC is closed today I was unable to test at distance. So tested at 25 yards.
I saw no high pressure signs but I am reluctant to add more powder to this recipe without some real data.
The hogbdon data I use as a guideline is for another type of bullet with similar BC and SD.
Does any of you have any data on some other manual that is out of my reach and you can share?
As far as I can tell the details of the xtreme 55gr are the same of the Hornady FMJ-BT w/cannelure.
Thanks

[OpenSightsOnly]

I saw no high pressure signs but I am reluctant to add more powder to this recipe without some real data.

Without some real data?

Instead of thinking that I need to add more powder, ask yourself which powder charge gave you a consistent group at 100 yards and without any signs of pressure.

[NiMiK]

The extreme bullets are plated while FMJ is jacketed. Not sure if you need to lower your charge weight if using plated with jacketed data.

[JackEllis]

Guillermo, in my opinion, your objective should be a powder charge that gets you an acceptably small group size. Muzzle velocity is important, but not as important as being able to consistently hit your target.

I load .223 for varmints, in which case I'm not shooting much past 200 yards, if that far. I'll give up 200 fps for accuracy. An added benefit is, the smaller the charge the smaller the per round cost.

Try again when the weather is better, only test at 100 yards.

[baih777]

the extreme 223 are FMJ.
just don't work very well. I gave up on those for 223.

why are you using H4895 ?

[baih777]

you can go higher. but start going higher at .2 or .3 increments when getting close to a suggested maximum charge.

[demolition]

I reload w IMR 4895 , xtreme bullets FMJ 55gr . 24gr / 24.5gr of Powder. Is there something wrong with using 4895 ? Something im missing or ?

[tigerpan]

Just trade the powder with somebody else, if there is not data. Why are your risk it. If you want continue, you Best bit is getting a Chronograph.
Powder is cheap, life is not.

[Metal God]

I agree with others that say , why would you go higher ? You are right in saying you don't have enough data . I'd also ask what's the purpose of this loading ? That IMHO is a big factor on how you load it .

If accuracy is most important then going higher in charge with out knowing how accurate these last ones were seems like a waist .

If velocity is your driving factor then "maybe" going higher is helpful but if you purposefully want to push a load to max pressures . I'd recommend shooting over a chrono at the same time .

I've tested loads where the cases did not show pressure signs but I was at or past the max velocities . If you are at max velocity of components . Going higher in charge weight just because your primers are not flat in a bad idea . Everything matters and you often have to look at "all" the data as a whole . Pressure signs in the cases can be very misleading . If you're getting brass flow you went way over safe pressure levels so not seeing pressure signs at max charge is a good thing .

I also can't find much data on H4895 in 223 with a 55gr bullet . Lots of IMR-4895 which I use a lot but they're not the same . It seems you can load down IMR more then the H . They both top out close to the same charge though .

Until you shoot out to 100yds and can see how accurate these loads are . I would not push them any harder yet .

[GuillermoAntonio]

Without some real data?

Instead of thinking that I need to add more powder, ask yourself which powder charge gave you a consistent group at 100 yards and without any signs of pressure.

I would have tried thath if SBRGC had been open. It wasn't so the "testing" was limited to 25 yds and the "observance" of pressure signs or any other irregularities.
I shot 60 rds of PMC Bronze .223 55gr before shooting the reloads so I could have a "feel threshold"

The extreme bullets are plated while FMJ is jacketed. Not sure if you need to lower your charge weight if using plated with jacketed data.

^^^This, I would like proof for... Got any links?

Guillermo, in my opinion, your objective should be a powder charge that gets you an acceptably small group size. Muzzle velocity is important, but not as important as being able to consistently hit your target.

I load .223 for varmints, in which case I'm not shooting much past 200 yards, if that far. I'll give up 200 fps for accuracy. An added benefit is, the smaller the charge the smaller the per round cost.

Try again when the weather is better, only test at 100 yards.

Will surely do, as that was my original plan. I have an 20" barrel 1/7 from PSA. I have not gone hunting ever yet but someday i will. Currently trying to use it for long distance shooting specially since I can train with it rather than with the .308 .
I have been interested about the "lower charges" so yeah if I can find a good lower charge I'll go with that. 200 yds seems like a good range to start with for me given the glass (Vortex Strikeagle 1-6x24)

the extreme 223 are FMJ.
just don't work very well. I gave up on those for 223.

why are you using H4895 ?

Because I wanted to only buy 1 rifle powder for both 223 and 308 and the h4895 seems to be shown plenty often in reloading manuals. I was also thinking of IMR 4895 but the local shop did not have it.
I heard the x-treme .223 55gr is in deed an FMJ bullet but there seems to be a lot of confusion, who is right?

you can go higher. but start going higher at .2 or .3 increments when getting close to a suggested maximum charge.

Thanks for the heads up!

I reload w IMR 4895 , xtreme bullets FMJ 55gr . 24gr / 24.5gr of Powder. Is there something wrong with using 4895 ? Something im missing or ?

Tell me more, how well do you do with this recipe?

Just trade the powder with somebody else, if there is not data. Why are your risk it. If you want continue, you Best bit is getting a Chronograph.
Powder is cheap, life is not.

Agreed, hence why I would not shoot higher loads without data. Got any data for me?

I agree with others that say , why would you go higher ? You are right in saying you don't have enough data . I'd also ask what's the purpose of this loading ? That IMHO is a big factor on how you load it .

If accuracy is most important then going higher in charge with out knowing how accurate these last ones were seems like a waist .

If velocity is your driving factor then "maybe" going higher is helpful but if you purposefully want to push a load to max pressures . I'd recommend shooting over a chrono at the same time .

I've tested loads where the cases did not show pressure signs but I was at or past the max velocities . If you are at max velocity of components . Going higher in charge weight just because your primers are not flat in a bad idea . Everything matters and you often have to look at "all" the data as a whole . Pressure signs in the cases can be very misleading . If you're getting brass flow you went way over safe pressure levels so not seeing pressure signs at max charge is a good thing .

I also can't find much data on H4895 in 223 with a 55gr bullet . Lots of IMR-4895 which I use a lot but they're not the same . It seems you can load down IMR more then the H . They both top out close to the same charge though .

Until you shoot out to 100yds and can see how accurate these loads are . I would not push them any harder yet .

Not necessarily trying to go higher, just wanted to have a good and ample "playing area" so i can test several loads. It just felt like I am limited too soon so I was wondering if anyone had any data.
There are several good manuals I don't have:
Lyman
Speer
Sierra

Also I know some of the people here have a cronograph and like testing all kinds of combinations. so just checking.

Thanks everyone for the responses.

[tigerpan]

Get different powder like 4064, varget.

[Metal God]

Neither sierra or Lyman have H 4895 and the 55 grain bullet nor does the Hornady and why i said I was having a problem finding the data .

[Dark Hunt]

For the 223, Hornady lists:

55 GR. SPR Maximum Loads

Hodgdon H4895 26.0 grains 3,315 fps at 49,000 CUP

[OpenSightsOnly]

Neither sierra or Lyman have H 4895 and the 55 grain bullet nor does the Hornady and why i said I was having a problem find the data .

Use IMR4895 since its similar to H4895 but start 10% less and work up.

For me, 25 grains of H4895 with the 52 grain SMK out of a WOA A2 upper is very good.

This load works for my upper.

[baih777]

I reload w IMR 4895 , xtreme bullets FMJ 55gr . 24gr / 24.5gr of Powder. Is there something wrong with using 4895 ? Something im missing or ?

nothing wrong, I was just curious. I usually use sperical powder for my semi auto. but I use stick (extruded) powder for my bolt actions because I handload those.

semi auto I like to use the powder drop.

I load 223 and 308.