Thinking about getting into reloading, had some questions

[Mystery_Milk]

Hey guys, I've been thinking about reloading more so I could spend more time shooting not .22, and to have a hobby I could do indoors after work for the rest of winter. I'm a bit limited in terms of space and tolerable noise levels, so I've been reading about possible set ups and had some questions since there was some conflicting information.

1. Regarding cleaning brass, I was going to put dirty brass in a bucket with some laundry detergent, shake or stir it during daylight hours when some noise is acceptable, leave it to soak, and dry it on my balcony for a day. I want to avoid tumblers because they're loud. From my reading, most people seem to think this method is acceptable, but doesn't produce pretty brass (not a big deal to me right now). However, some people seem to think it doesn't clean brass well enough to be safe or to keep dies clean. Is this an okay method?
2. Another cleaning question. I think a tumbler would be okay if I had to use it for half an hour or so. However, a lot of people recommend running brass in the tumbler for 4 to 6 hours, while others toss it in there for 15 minutes. I imagine this comes down to an appearance thing, but I wanted to be sure. How long does brass really need to be in a tumbler for?
3. Is it easier/faster to reload rifle rounds or straightwall pistol rounds? If I reload a rifle round, it's going to be fired out of the same bolt gun, so I was thinking about neck sizing (no lubing and making the brass last longer sound good to me). But I read that pistol rounds don't have to be trimmed that often compared to rifle cases. Is one better to start with than the other? I could use more range time with both calibers so I'm really just looking for the easier one to start with.
4. For equipment, I'm most likely going to start with a Lee single stage press. What's the difference between their presses, like this, this, and this? I'm either going to get one of those, bolt it to a piece of wood, and clamp it to my table, or use the Lee Hand Press. Is one option better than the other?
5. Regarding trimming equipment, I know some people trim cases by hand, but I don't have a garage or workshop and I don't want brass shavings getting anywhere, so I'd rather get a piece of equipment that will catch the shavings. One of the appeals of clamping a press to a table is that I could also use one of those dies that you attach a drill to to trim the case, rather than using the hand press and having to have a separate trimming tool which would probably end up taking more space. However, I haven't been able to find much on that particular piece of equipment; is there a reason it's not popular that I'm not seeing?

Thanks in advance guys.

[RandyD]

You have a lot of good questions, and I would recommend getting a reloading book to learn more about the process.

I used to run a tumbler when I lived in an apartment, and I never received a complaint.

Regarding neck sizing; you will eventually need to full length resize rifle brass. If you are shooting a bolt gun, you will want to full length resize your brass as little as possible. If you are shooting a semi auto, lever action or pump action then you will want to full length resize your brass enough so that the action operates without force. You will need tools to measure the headspace of your fired brass so that your resizing is consistent and repeatable.

[Michael in California]

1. Regarding cleaning brass, I was going to put dirty brass in a bucket with some laundry detergent, shake or stir it during daylight hours when some noise is acceptable, leave it to soak, and dry it on my balcony for a day. I want to avoid tumblers because they're loud. From my reading, most people seem to think this method is acceptable, but doesn't produce pretty brass (not a big deal to me right now). However, some people seem to think it doesn't clean brass well enough to be safe or to keep dies clean. Is this an okay method?
   
   It is safe. No problem there. I love pretty brass, but it doesn't make it shoot better. A couple of months ago, I had no choice but to use uncleaned brass. It worked fine. Using carbide dies, you won't hurt them. You might want to clean the dies occasionally.
   
2. Another cleaning question. I think a tumbler would be okay if I had to use it for half an hour or so. However, a lot of people recommend running brass in the tumbler for 4 to 6 hours, while others toss it in there for 15 minutes. I imagine this comes down to an appearance thing, but I wanted to be sure. How long does brass really need to be in a tumbler for?
   
   I wet tumble for about 90 minutes. Can't help with dry tumbling.
   
   
3. Is it easier/faster to reload rifle rounds or straightwall pistol rounds? If I reload a rifle round, it's going to be fired out of the same bolt gun, so I was thinking about neck sizing (no lubing and making the brass last longer sound good to me). But I read that pistol rounds don't have to be trimmed that often compared to rifle cases. Is one better to start with than the other? I could use more range time with both calibers so I'm really just looking for the easier one to start with.
   
   Straight walled cases are always easier. So far, neck sizing for my bolt gun is fine for multiple reloads. But, everyone says you need to full length resize for semi-autos. I have never trimmed a pistol round. I would definitely start with pistol rounds.
   
4. For equipment, I'm most likely going to start with a Lee single stage press. What's the difference between their presses, like this, this, and this? I'm either going to get one of those, bolt it to a piece of wood, and clamp it to my table, or use the Lee Hand Press. Is one option better than the other?
   
   No opinion on Lee presses. I'm not real fond of lee products.
   
5. Regarding trimming equipment, I know some people trim cases by hand, but I don't have a garage or workshop and I don't want brass shavings getting anywhere, so I'd rather get a piece of equipment that will catch the shavings. One of the appeals of clamping a press to a table is that I could also use one of those dies that you attach a drill to to trim the case, rather than using the hand press and having to have a separate trimming tool which would probably end up taking more space. However, I haven't been able to find much on that particular piece of equipment; is there a reason it's not popular that I'm not seeing?
   
   My previous comment about Lee is excepted here. I use a Lee quick trim for my rifle brass. It works quite well and is economical. I use the one with a crank handle, not a drill. Doesn't take long.
   

Thanks in advance guys.

answers in line...

[JackEllis]

I've fired plenty of brass washed in Dawn dish detergent and a little Lemishine (citric acid). My hunting buddy never washes his brass, let alone tumbling it. You may need to clean crud out of the primer pockets but that's about all.

Cleaning brass, especially if you pick up brass at the range instead of buying it, is a messy business, whether you just wash, or wet or dry tumble. I have a workshop with a sink where I can do this. You should be prepared to clean out your kitchen or bathroom sink...a lot.

I have an RCBS Rockchucker and it's enough load around 1500 rounds of various rifle calibers per year. I individually measure out and check each powder charge and it's fine.

A couple of things I would stress even though they're in every reloading book and you'll see a lot of similar advice here: don't take shortcuts, work up loads slowly instead of starting with the hottest loads, and learn how to look for pressure signs.

[Dark Hunt]

Even if you neck size bottleneck rifle cases you need to use lube, the expanding button being forced dry through the neck will bind.

[NorCalFocus]

[*]Regarding cleaning brass, I was going to put dirty brass in a bucket with some laundry detergent, shake or stir it during daylight hours when some noise is acceptable, leave it to soak, and dry it on my balcony for a day. I want to avoid tumblers because they're loud. From my reading, most people seem to think this method is acceptable, but doesn't produce pretty brass (not a big deal to me right now). However, some people seem to think it doesn't clean brass well enough to be safe or to keep dies clean. Is this an okay method?

Another cleaning question. I think a tumbler would be okay if I had to use it for half an hour or so. However, a lot of people recommend running brass in the tumbler for 4 to 6 hours, while others toss it in there for 15 minutes. I imagine this comes down to an appearance thing, but I wanted to be sure. How long does brass really need to be in a tumbler for?

Tumblers aren't that loud. Usually its that people run em on a hard surface and the sound travels better that way. Run it on carpet on top of a towel and it shouldn't be a problem. I'm also sure you'd rather run it during the day when post of your neighbors aren't home. Simple, get a wall timer so you can turn it on, and it will auto shut off.

Like this ...https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074J723VJ...a-351228955577

I run white rice in my tumbler and it works great. I have no dust to deal with unlike walnut and corn media. It only take about a hour to run my own brass through it to keep it clean. Like others said, range pick is real dirty, thats because it sits on the ground getting walked on and etc. If you catching or collecting your own brass as you shoot, it really doesn't get that dirty.

Is it easier/faster to reload rifle rounds or straightwall pistol rounds? If I reload a rifle round, it's going to be fired out of the same bolt gun, so I was thinking about neck sizing (no lubing and making the brass last longer sound good to me). But I read that pistol rounds don't have to be trimmed that often compared to rifle cases. Is one better to start with than the other? I could use more range time with both calibers so I'm really just looking for the easier one to start with.

Pistol rounds require more dies to run through, so on a single stage that more pulling of the handle. Rifle rounds require more brass prep. But it is a little easier to load pistol rounds. There's just less to worry about.

Don't buy into the neck only sizing myths. Even with neck only sizing, you'll want some lube. Otherwise you scratch the hell out of your brass. With neck only sizing you'll need to FL size after the case gets to big. Wait till you get a round that feeds in fine, but then won't eject because it became to big. The brass doesn't automatically last longer either. Yes you can over work brass with a FL die, but you can also do the same with neck dies. Even if you neck size, eventually you'll get a donut in the neck from the bushings in the die. You have then use a neck trimmer to cut it out, or toss the brass. Go with a FL die and just learn how to do it correctly.

I'd start with what ever is going to save you the most money. Usally thats rifle rounds.

For equipment, I'm most likely going to start with a Lee single stage press. What's the difference between their presses, like this, this, and this? I'm either going to get one of those, bolt it to a piece of wood, and clamp it to my table, or use the Lee Hand Press. Is one option better than the other?

The first one is too cheap. The second one is just fine. I started on one, and still have it. (although I'm about ready to sell it. PM me if you want to talk about it). The classic cast is really nice. That one should last you a lifetime. Don't go with the hand press. You'll get tired of it pretty quick. Pistol rounds won't be so hard to do in it, but rifle rounds require some force once in a while.

Here's the stand I made for my press (with the Lee on it still lol) Its 1" thick solid oak. I bought a solid stair tread from Lowes and cut it up. AS you can see I also have my trimmer mounted to the back. While I have a deicated space, I don't have 8 feet of bench either. So I wanted something I can move around. This has worked very well.

Regarding trimming equipment, I know some people trim cases by hand, but I don't have a garage or workshop and I don't want brass shavings getting anywhere, so I'd rather get a piece of equipment that will catch the shavings. One of the appeals of clamping a press to a table is that I could also use one of those dies that you attach a drill to to trim the case, rather than using the hand press and having to have a separate trimming tool which would probably end up taking more space. However, I haven't been able to find much on that particular piece of equipment; is there a reason it's not popular that I'm not seeing?

There's this...it catches all your shavings, its fast, easy to use, etc...but its also $450

https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/GIRAUD-POWER-CASE-TRIMMER/case-preparation?gclid=Cj0KCQiAvrfSBRC2ARIsAFumcm_-q_7w1RjP624qjqmK_qF3Zh6IIkZQ-A0xfJ6BysdsvnAGd2yYrdsaAv0eEALw_wcB

For my trimmer, I just lay my stand on a old towel, trim, then vacuum up all the shavings when I'm done. It really isn't that bad. Hell I could fashion a shield for the trimmer if I wanted to.

[kevins750]

Tumbling.

I don't tumble for hours either. I tumble twice each time for about half an hour.First time for initial cleaning and second time after sizing my brass.
My tumbler isn't that loud, I have a friend who has his tumbler inside a cardboard box when he tumbles(kind of like a sound barrier of sorts)

Unless your brass is dirty range pick up, I would think a quick wet wash would work.

Lee products.

I only use lee presses, I have a classic cast single, classic cast turret, and the little aluminum "C" press(the first one you have pictured).

The classic cast single is for bolt guns.
The classic cast turret is for semi-autos
The "C" press is for sizing cast bullets and flaring case mouths.
I don't own anything with the breech lock systems, it is a way to quickly change dies on a press.

I will say this I can afford any press I want and I have no issues with the lee products that I own. Friends have rcbs, Forster , and Hornady I have used them all and including the lee presses I own, all are very good products.

I trim with a lee trimmer and a cord less drill.

I use lee 3 set dies for all semi-auto rifles I own.
I use Forster and rcbs competition dies for all bolt guns I own.


*********** I will add this if I had limited space for a press, I would buy the lee classic cast turret and use it as a single stage until I was comfortable with it and then use its indexing turret feature. It is a great press.

[MrElectric03]

Brass will work fine dirty, if you use Carbide dies it will help a lot. Your method of cleaning is better than nothing but really a small Frankfort wet tumbler is not very loud and running it for even 30 minutes the brass will look worlds better and be plenty clean to keep your dies clean. Carbide dies are very expensive for rifle rounds and aren't even available for most calibers.

Straight walled cases are always easier and you will likely never need to trim them. Primers pockets would probably wear out first. Neck sizing is for bolt guns and brass still needs full length sized occasionally. Nothing wrong with full length sizing if done correctly. Redding makes a full length bushing die which is what I will use for hunting rounds. It sized the brass just enough to chamber easily but doesn't over work it.

Lee presses are decent for the money but I prefer rcbs or Redding. Lee would be just fine for you though but I can't stress enough the hand press is not an option. You can size pistol brass on it but your hand will be hurting, you'll have to have a bench mounted press for rifle brass.

I hand trim all rifle brass other than .223 just because of the volume I shoot. I use the Sinclair/Wilson micrometer trimmer. You can get the non micrometer version and add the micrometer later. All you need for each caliber is a $12-$20 case holder. Thy have been around forever and case holders can gen easily found used at gun shows and eBay and the trimmers are very accurate. Forster trimmers are also very easy to,use and very available. If you set the trimmer on a 12"x12" mat, poster board, old t shirt etc it would catch everything and you could dump it into a trash can.

[glockmeister]

I used a tumbler and hated the noise and dust. I got a harbor freight rock washer on the cheap and now use that to clean 9mm brass. Add stainless steel media, water, a bit of lemishine and a drop of dawn detergent. About 45 mins later, brass is clean inside out. Much easier and quiet compared to the tumbler I was using.

[wbunning]

As above..you can set up a tumbler indoors in an interior room. You could even make a sound-diminishing cover for it out of a box lined with styro or other foam. I prefer wet-tumbling, and that would be the better choice for indoors.

The Lee Reloader press is too flimsy for rifle work, IMHO. I have two of them, one is a permanent de-capping station and the other is for sizing my cast bullets. The Classic Cast is much stronger.

Rifle ammo for one particular firearm is fairly simple, once you get your recipe, sizing and headspace adjustments worked out. A single stage is fine for rifle.

Handgun ammo takes more steps, and eventually you may want a turret or progressive press if you shoot a lot, but a single stage remains a good place to start, and you’ll always have a use for it. You’ll likely never need to trim straight-walled handgun brass.

Get a book and start reading.

[boyguan]

You could just maybe find a cal gunner with a tumbler and see if they can’t help you out with that. I love my clean looking brass and for me it’s easier to spot issues with the brass. I wet tumble in my apartment and it’s great. The only issu is where to store the tumbler.

The press itself is easy. I have a Lee classic turret and it’s great to be able to switch does quickly and to use it as a semi progressive. I would totally buy it again or maybe a RCBS turret. Single stage is fine but why if you can get a semi progressive

Great indoor hobby that pays off. You will end up shooting more to test kids and collect data

[trackcage]

Looks like I'm going to be in the minority with this response, but don't get a single stage press. Unless you don't plan to shoot much, it will get old.

When I was in your position 3 years ago, I bought a Dillon 550. It's a progressive press, but you manually index it to the next station. So you could run it as a single stage if you want... especially when loading precision rifle or when just learning the press.

No, nothing bad happened and I did not blow myself up jumping right into a progressive. Nothing wrong with a single stage, it's just not for volume. I reloaded thousands of rounds my first year and simply would not have done that on a single stage. Reloading is a hobby, but IMO single stage makes it a bit tedious.

Your other questions:

Pistol is simpler than rifle.

I dry tumble for about an hour using lizard bedding and nu finish car polish. Brass comes out as clean as I'll ever need it to be.

[Lead Waster]

I used to just wash my brass in a basin, and wearing dishwashing gloves, I'd just swish it around and rub the brass. I've tried just swishing around with a (new) toilet brush. As long as there is not a huge amount of dirt on the brass, that should be good enough. Drying is a towel filled with brass, rubbed around, then laid flat outside.

I'd recommend getting at least a Lee Classic Turret press. Just save yourself a bit of monotony. However, the Lee presses (the O shaped ones) are good for a single stage.

If you go single stage, I highly recommeng getting one with bushings so you can set your dies correctly in the bushing, then just twist the bushings out and in for quick and repeatable die changes. If you screw in and out the dies, even with the lock rings set, you'll need to fiddle with adjustment every time you swap dies...very monotonous. I would never run a single stage press without bushings anymore. I have a rock chucker and I used the Hornady bushing kit and bushings to quick change dies in it (when I use the single stage for loading, which is now rare)


I reloaded in my apartment as well, I mounted my presses to a piece of wood, which I clamped to the kitchen counter. Single stage and 550b progressive. Washing brass in a basin.

[fx1974]

I used to handwash my brass with Dawn+Lemishine. I now clean using ultrasonic (it is not noisy) and done right, the cases come out really clean but not shiny. I air-dry them then polish them up in a tumbler with corn cob and car wax.

For a press, any single stage should work. I have a Rock Chucker. I also have the Lee hand press. I would not recommend the hand press if that is going to be your only press. The hand press is handy for depriming and load development in the range (usually seating bullets). Resizing rifle cases in a hand press gets challenging pretty quick. If you are considering presses other than Lee, I think the RCBS Summit would be great for a really compact single stage press.

I reload both rifle and pistol in single stage. Pistol is way easier that rifle. The case prep on the rifle can be a chore, so don't skimp too much on case prep. Get a really good trimmer; I have a Wilson. The Giraud power trimmer is great, but it will be noisy. If you need to deal with brass trimmings, maybe trim on your balcony?

[Michael in California]

Looks like I'm going to be in the minority with this response, but don't get a single stage press. Unless you don't plan to shoot much, it will get old.

When I was in your position 3 years ago, I bought a Dillon 550. It's a progressive press, but you manually index it to the next station. So you could run it as a single stage if you want... especially when loading precision rifle or when just learning the press.

No, nothing bad happened and I did not blow myself up jumping right into a progressive. Nothing wrong with a single stage, it's just not for volume. I reloaded thousands of rounds my first year and simply would not have done that on a single stage. Reloading is a hobby, but IMO single stage makes it a bit tedious.

I understand your position and I went with a auto-indexing progressive first. As long as one learns slowly and practices with one station at a time, it is certainly a great way to start for pistol.

However, I have found that you will eventually get a single stage for precision and/or low volume rifle so it really doesn't matter what type press you start with, you end up with both in the end.

Rifle has too many off-press processes to get great advantage out a progressive.

So, I'd still recommend the OP get a single stage for now as its more cost conscious to start out.