Brass case buckling?

[ngnrnlo]

Do you have a case gauge?

If you measure your cases, i bet the ones that are getting crunched are longer than the case you used to setup the seating/crimping die.

I measured about 20 cases randomly with a caliper. They varied from .890 to .893

It has got to be excess flaring. The buckling is at about the same level as the excessive crimping I did.

What do I do know? Try to salvage about 120 excessively flared cases, or toss them?

[AandO]

CHANGE THE DIE RING TO THE PROPER ONE.

[TexasJackKin]

The Redding seating die I am using crimps at the same time. I have no control over the amount of crimp. Is there a different technique when seating with such dies?

I you make the photo larger (it has enough resolution), you will see a black material over the rim of the case. Could that be scraping from the metal jacket? And could this mean I need to flare more? Although I was surprised how much I had to lower the flaming rod in the die, to get 1/3 in flaring.

[wbunning]

Edit: Texasjack beat me to it..but here’s my response anyway:

It looks to me that your crimp is set way too strong. The crimp taper is engaging long before your bullet is seated, causing you to use excessive force on the ram. I see rings on the bullet noses from an ill-fitting seating stem. Even with a poorly fitting stem, you should'nt need enough force upon seating to cause those deep rings.

If those cases are buckled on one side then they are no longer straight. Headspacing will be off, and you may have feeding issues. Got a bullet puller? I'd pull them.

That ring around the bullet nose should not be there. You can do several things to correct that such as filing down the cup of the seating stem until it fits the bullet nose better, but I'd only do that if you can get a replacement stem for your die. You may want to use a different bullet sometime.

I seat and crimp in two separate steps. It’s best to have a separate crimp die, but you can use the single sea/crimp die for both. The drill for using the seating/crimp die crimp to do the crimp on a separate step is this:

1) with the die out of the press, back the stem way out.

2)place an unloaded case on the ram and run it up, then install the die and run it down until you feel it contact the case mouth, then back it out 1/2-1 turn so that no crimp takes place.

3) seat all your bullets, then back the stem out again so that no more seating will take place.

4) re-check your die so that you just feel the contact with a loaded case mouth, drop the ram, and turn the die down about 1/4 turn to give a slight crimp. Check the crimp visually. If it's ok, lock the die and crimp ‘em all. If not, turn the die in a bit more.

It's kind of a pain to use your seat/crimp die this way, but it’s really important for me to prevent shaving my cast bullets. You can make life easier by purchasing a separate crimp die like the one from Lee.

[ngnrnlo]

I will get separate seating/ crimping dies. And Forster rings! Thanks a lot.

[AandO]

Get the RINGS first, your Dies are fine, even excellent.....

From memory: Forster sells them in a 12 pack option

[divingin]

I don't see any evidence of over-crimping in your second pic (usually shows up as a folded in mouth or a scraped ring on the outside of the case mouth), but the marks left on the bullet by your seating stem indicate that a lot of force is being applied at your seat station.

After your flaring, pull the case so you can see it, and place a bullet on the case mouth. It should begin to fit through the case mouth without pressure. You should be able to see the inside of the case mouth all around the bullet base. If it doesn't you may be buckling the case while starting the bullet into the case mouth. Your expander (or flaring) die should have a fairly cylindrical portion that slides into the case, and then a distinctly flared portion to bell the mouth. I do not see the bell in your empty brass photos.

Ran into a similar problem with a friend; he was shaving lead. My setup yields a case mouth diameter of .467" after belling; just below the bell (to give you an idea of the sized but unflared case) measures .467". He wasn't belling the mouth enough, and another quarter turn or so of the die fixed his problem. You may be able to get away with a bit less flare if you're using jacketed bullets, but you need to be able to start the bullet without catching the case mouth.

Or, I may be totally off and you may have another problem in your process. Break your process down so you do one thing at a time (i.e pull your crimp die back and only seat to your desired length), and you should be able to ID where the problem is happening.

[diveRN]

Looks like an excessive crimp to me, assuming OAL is correct and given the marks on the jacket.

If your flaring/expander die is dialed in optimally, you should be able to skip the crimp all together. That's not a recommendation nor am I advocating for it in your case, but when I was loading on a Lee single stage, I rarely used the crimp die and my target / plinking reloads always shot well from a few different guns. I only crimp now because I have it set up as a stage in my 650.

In the interest of saving you time and possibly eliminating this problem, there are tons of articles and forum discussions out there about not crimping pistol ammo. Google.

[bazineta]

If you're swapping out the dies (and I would, separating the crimp is IMO the way to go), I recommend taking a look at one of the seating dies with a micrometer, as a die is something that'll last practically forever; might as well have one that's a pleasure to use. I have the Redding model. For the crimp, while I'm for the most part a Redding snob, I use Lee crimp dies for everything.

[ngnrnlo]

Get the RINGS first, your Dies are fine, even excellent.....

From memory: Forster sells them in a 12 pack option

Ordered a 12 pack an hour ago.

I have a bullet puller, but did not have a collet for 45. Ordered that too, as well as the Lee carbide crimp die.

I'll post pictures of the component after I pull the bullet. That should give more clues.

I dropped an empty flared case into a 45 barrel, it did not fit all the way in.

I use a micrometer seating die for the 308, but I am not spending $100+ for a 45 seater.

After flaring the cases, I tried to fit a bullet. It went in about 1/32".

[JTROKS]

Get a taper crimp die and just deal with the extra step.

[TexasJackKin]

You don't Need, 2 separate dies (seat and crimp) but is sure makes life easier. Back in the old days (all us old timers have done it) we would seat only with the seat/crimp die, then back the stem out, and screw the die down, and run them all though again to crimp.

But nowadays that defeats the purpose of a progressive press, so a lot of us seat and crimp with two separate dies. In the single stage days, it was just one more pass though the press, but it was quick and easy....

[ngnrnlo]

You don't Need, 2 separate dies (seat and crimp) but is sure makes life easier. Back in the old days (all us old timers have done it) we would seat only with the seat/crimp die, then back the stem out, and screw the die down, and run them all though again to crimp.

But nowadays that defeats the purpose of a progressive press, so a lot of us seat and crimp with two separate dies. In the single stage days, it was just one more pass though the press, but it was quick and easy....

"need"?

What does that have to do with gun hobbies?

[ironhorse1]

Honestly if you set your dies up correctly you will almost never need two dies.

Clearly your loaded,crushed cases show that you need to reset your dies.

It almost appears that you are starting to form a roll crimp while still pushing the bullet into the case.

Set your dies as has been suggested and try again. Personally even using Lee .45 ACP dies there has never been an issue seating and taper crimping.

Start slower and keep trying. The .45 ACP is one of the easiest cartridges to load.

irh

[ngnrnlo]

The die adjusting sequence recommended above worked! I did raise the die a couple of turns so it does not crimp, then I adjusted it to seat at desired AOL. Tried it twice afterwards, no buckling or damage to the case. And it does not look loke I need crimping. Thank you!

So it was excessive crimping afterwards.

Now I have a Lee crimp die on its way, but it is OK because I (finally) read the instructions that came with the Redding set; and it says not to use this die for crimping a bullet that does not have a cannelure. Like 23O FMJs I have!
[edit] was able to cancel the Lee crimp die and the Forster rings just in time.