460 S&W C.O.L. safe?

[Jason Singh]

Hey you guys,

Quick question about the cartridge overall length and crimping the 460 s&w.

I am reloading using Hornady XTP Mag 300 grain bullets using winchester 296.


1. The reload data from Hodgdon calls for an overall length of the cartridge to 2.160". Before the crimp the cartridge is at 2.160", after the crimp the COL goes to 2.158", does this .002 make a difference? Is it safe to shoot?


2. My first reloaded cartridge COL came out to 2.154", would this be safe? or is that 0.006" too much?

3. Can I over crimp this bullet?

Any info helps!

[Dynamic]

From my experience the OAL should not change when crimping.

Are you using a Lee factory crimp die ? Or the seating die with the crimp ?

If seating die with crimp.

Did you first seat all your bullets, then adjusted the crimp and crimped them ?

If so you probably need to back out ( or remove the seater plug completely ) if you are doing this in 2 steps ( with the seating and crimping die )

[Dynamic]

As far as OAL variance i give my self +/- 5 thousands ( +/- .005 )

[Jason Singh]

From my experience the OAL should not change when crimping.

Are you using a Lee factory crimp die ? Or the seating die with the crimp ?

If seating die with crimp.

Did you first seat all your bullets, then adjusted the crimp and crimped them ?

If so you probably need to back out ( or remove the seater plug completely ) if you are doing this in 2 steps ( with the seating and crimping die )

I am using the lee factory crimp die and yes this is a two step process. I will back the crimp die out a little. I have only reloaded 2 rounds. I just wanted to be 100% sure before wasting any more bullets or powder.


The second round I reloaded went from 2.160 to 2.158 after I crimped it, so I will back the crimp out just a bit. I am sure it'll be find.

Is it possible to over crimp?

[Jason Singh]

As far as OAL variance i give my self +/- 5 thousands ( +/- .005 )

Thank you, this is very helpful!

[Whiterabbit]

You can be off ALOT and be just fine. First and foremost, the tolerances you are worried about are no big deal under any circumstance. Your hands and gun will be fine within the variance. If you were looking at .1" of tolerance, the answer is "maybe, but maybe not". But at .006, you are way, way OK.

Even with 296, which is the defining factor here for how concerned you should be about empty volume inside a loaded case. .006 is still nothing, and .100 is possibly no big deal.

-----------------

This is ALL in reference to internal ballistics. Has nothing to do with bullet fit, jumping crimp, etc etc etc. None of which realistically is inherently a hand-blower-upper. Bottom line, .006 variability in OAL is not going to cause a blow up.

[ruggyh]

Setting deeper increases pressure, that said unless you are loading at the max there is no problem with 296. If you Crimp in the cannalure you shouldn't have a problem.

Unless you are looking for fastest possible load you will find 4227 will provide better consistence with less flash.

Over crimping may cause a bulge that wont allow the cartridge to be chambered.

Read the instructions that came with your dies- you need to learn how to set them up properly - seating depth should not change when crimping

As I suggest in one of your previous post; get a good reloading manual and read/study it - they explain this and much more. With a MAP of 65 kpsi this is not a cartridge to be trifled with.

good luck
Ruggy

[Jason Singh]

You can be off ALOT and be just fine. First and foremost, the tolerances you are worried about are no big deal under any circumstance. Your hands and gun will be fine within the variance. If you were looking at .1" of tolerance, the answer is "maybe, but maybe not". But at .006, you are way, way OK.

Even with 296, which is the defining factor here for how concerned you should be about empty volume inside a loaded case. .006 is still nothing, and .100 is possibly no big deal.

-----------------

This is ALL in reference to internal ballistics. Has nothing to do with bullet fit, jumping crimp, etc etc etc. None of which realistically is inherently a hand-blower-upper. Bottom line, .006 variability in OAL is not going to cause a blow up.

Thank you! This is what I thought. Your post was really helpful.

[Jason Singh]

Setting deeper increases pressure, that said unless you are loading at the max there is no problem with 296. If you Crimp in the cannalure you shouldn't have a problem.

ing for fastest possible load you will find 4227 will provide better consistence with less flash.

Over crimping may cause a bulge that wont allow the cartridge to be chambered.

Read the instructions that came with your dies- you need to learn how to set them up properly - seating depth should not change when crimping

As I suggest in one of your previous post; get a good reloading manual and read/study it - they explain this and much more. With a MAP of 65 kpsi this is not a cartridge to be trifled with.

good luck
Ruggy

Ruggy thank you. I am taking your advice right now and getting a manual. the 65 KPSI is the reason I am here asking about a very small variation.

The cartridges fit my gun, using an eye test, the crimp looks less of a crimpe than my fusion 460 rounds. I will fix the crimp issue and see why it is pushing my bullets in deeper.

[sofbak]

Hmm. I use th Lee FCD on .40, .45acp, & .45 colt and it usually adds about .0015 to the coal. But mine are all uniform flat point or round nose projectiles.

Take one of your samples and measure three times across different lines on the axis.

Anyway, two thou on that cartridge is micro-minutia. "Choot 'em!"

[TKM]

The cylinder is 2.305 inches long. Less than that should be good.

Just for fun, hold a loaded .223 round next to the cylinder. They've always kept that as a future possibility.

[robert101]

You should also address the powder charge. Are you at maximum recommended? Did you shoot this powder charge before? My basic suggestion would be to not worry about the small variance in OAL if the powder charge is say <10% of maximum not to exceed. If I was at a maximum charge and not shot this high of a charge, then I would be more cautious. Remember, all guns are different and what is safe in one is not necessarily safe in another.

[Whiterabbit]

Thank you! This is what I thought. Your post was really helpful.

Good the takeaway I was going for is that you're gonna be safe to shoot.

Of course there is risk that you will:
-Jump crimp, locking your cylinder, annoying you.
-Squib (eventually), locking your barrel, annoying you.
-Terrible accuracy, even at 25 yards, annoying you.
-Hangfire (eventually), resulting in terrible accuracy, annoying you.
-Overcrimp, cant chamber, annoying you.
-Overcrimp (lead), shrinking the bullet, causing bad accuracy, annoying you.

Lots of ways to go wrong, and in each case the risk I see is getting annoyed, not loosing blood.

That's with variances far beyond .006. I'll bet you my cast loads which can do 3" at 100 yards on a good day from a pistol vary way more than .006

[Whiterabbit]

Ruggy, I think we see eye to eye on just about everything, but I do not see the distinction between 65ksi and 15ksi. Even 125 psi in my compressor tank is a pressure hazard that could kill me, why should 125 psi be something I should be less inherently careful around than 65000 psi? Ditto a rifle I am going to put my cheek 4 inches away from the barrel on, doesn;t matter if I'm loading to 10ksi with trailboss, I'm treating it with the same respect as my 65ksi stuff!

[ruggyh]

Ruggy, I think we see eye to eye on just about everything, but I do not see the distinction between 65ksi and 15ksi. Even 125 psi in my compressor tank is a pressure hazard that could kill me, why should 125 psi be something I should be less inherently careful around than 65000 psi? Ditto a rifle I am going to put my cheek 4 inches away from the barrel on, doesn;t matter if I'm loading to 10ksi with trailboss, I'm treating it with the same respect as my 65ksi stuff!

Steve

You are correct that injury is possible at even pressure low as your 125 psi compressor. Simply pointing out as the pressure increases the potential increases.

be safe
Ruggy