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Howdy all...
Some time back, I got tired of the old cordless drill & socket method of annealing, and looked for an easier (but not Giraud or Annealeeze expensive) solution. Mostly because of the large quantities of brass... trying to run 2K through the old way was sucking up WAY too much time.
The first thing I attempted was to use a lead pot with glass media, but I couldn't get it to work, and ended up going through two pots.
After seeing threads on ARF.com and youtube, (laying on the couch with the flu) I decided to give designing and building my own a shot. Meety_Peety was in the same boat, so we've been building our own and kabitzing back and forth via PM for the past months. Mostly sharing experiences, tips, mistakes, etc.
Turns out, there are a lot of tiny details involved with making one that performs well, and I think that I've got most of those figured out.
The first one ended up too big, and had a wrong face plate angle. The second had controls in akward locations, and sensors positioned wrong. The third time was a charm. Here's the result:
One of the biggest pains was to have to order parts from different places, and then wait weeks for them to show up... only to find out I'd ordered the wrong thing. Also a pain was wiring... I fried two proximity sensors while trying to decipher the various wiring diagrams people had posted. (I'm an armorer and a software guy... not an electrics guy).
What I've ended up with is a big chunk of knowledge that I'm intending to share with my fellow calgunners who may want to make their own.
To make this easier, I've made wiring diagrams, ordered the various parts in quantity, and I'm in talks with a local machine shop to manufacture the custom bits (like the white feed drum, brass stop holder, and the torch holder). While watching TV with Mrs. 2111, I've also started making full wiring harnesses.
These things I'll be offering up in the marketplace, along with blueprints.
I'm not planning on making these for people, but I will from time to time. This Lee Red one is actually for a calgunner. (I have 4 others just about finished for some buddies of mine)
Yes, I went for all of the bells and whistles on this one. The digital counter was a nice-to-have, though it added about $25 to the cost of the parts. All in all, I think the total parts cost for this unit was about $130. I'm still figuring out all of the numbers (and yes, waiting for a part or two in the mail still), so I'm not quite ready to start offering build kits... but I'll post an update once they are ready.
If there's a ton of interest in parts kits, I'll put the money down and order more stuff. If lots of people want them built, I'll use it as an excuse to buy a decent table saw.
The purpose of this thread is to share the learnings encountered. It's a very fun project!
I'll post up stuff often as time permits, but here's a bit to start:
Tools:
Mostly, I've use a circular saw, drill press, jig saw, small router, hack saw, dremel with cut off wheels, soldering iron, wire strippers/crimper, and a hand drill.
The chassis:
I went with 3/8 nice finish birch plywood. I hate MDF, but you could use that to save a couple of bucks. Using bent sheet metal or an existing metal cabinet is possible, I've seen people do this in the other threads. Me, I like wood.
The angle of the face plate is very important. If it is too steep, cases will rub against it while rolling down the ramp and get hung up. If it is too shallow, cases will turn as they roll (since they are tapered), and miss the sensors.
The size I've ended up with is approximately 13 x 13.
The hopper where the brass sits is a second layer of wood. This lines up the ramp with the right place on the pan.
Paint:
After trying to find "true dillon blue", waiting for weeks for spray paint to show up, only to have it not match... I just took my super-swager to Lowes and had a small can of paint color matched. I did the same thing with a Lee die box, and an RCBS gauge set. MUCH easier. A small can of paint goes a very long way though.
Power Supply:
After seeing lots of people experimenting with different power supplies, including recycling old PC power supplies (and having a healthy fear of electricity), I opted for a 12 volt system, run from a 2 amp wall-wart. These are cheap and easily available, and if there's a short or other electrical problem, there's only 12 volts running through everything instead of house power.
Proximity Swtich Driven:
Most of the units I've seen people use have two motor controllers, one for the pan motor, one for the feed drum. The problem with this design is that you have to get them perfectly synchronized, and a certain amount out of phase to keep double feeds from happening. Also, there's the chance of "missed" cycles. To get around that, a hall effect proximity switch (which it turns out is cheaper than a second motor controller) is used. This runs the feed drum at full speed whenever a case drops into the drum. (those are the orange dots on the ramp)
Hoppers:
My first one was HUGE. I wanted to be able to load up 500 300BLK cases at at a time, but if you load up too many (as anyone with a Giraud knows), the ones at the top of the pile slip off and end up on the floor. Resist the urge to try and go too big.
A wider "V" at the bottom keeps takes weight off of the feed drum. A steep angle here puts the load on the drum, which puts it on the shaft of the motor. Plus it lets it hold more.
Brass stop:
The simplest design is to use a U-bolt to hold the case in front of the flame. The problem though, is that causes the corner of the U-bolt to get hit by the flame, and get hot. A clever guy on ARF.com came up with a hook-design, which keeps the stop out of the heat, which keeps the heat from ending up being transferred to the chassis.
Feed drum:
This one I'm using has a 1/2 inch notch. It works fine for 5.56, 300BLK, 6.5, and 308. I haven't tried it with anything bigger. Bigger cases would possibly use a second drum with a wider/deeper slot. (I'm going to experiment with this and come up with a magic number, and offer that as a kit option).
Cake pan:
Cut it too tall, and the flame hits it, which transfers heat to the motor. (bad)
Cut it too short, and the brass falls out. (bad)
This size works for 5.56 and 308... it'll probably work for bigger cases as well (still experimenting on that).
Shorter cases like 6.5 and 300BLK require a shallower pan... but changing pans only takes a second with how it's mounted.
There's a taper in the notch geometry that helps keep cases from "hopping" when they drop into position. The trailing edge needs to be a degree or three wider at the base, so the cases drop in head end with a slight lead.
Finding the perfect center of the pan is an exercise in head scratching... there's not sharp corners to measure off of. The best solution I've found is to use a compass and make a template from a thin sheet of plastic, then lay it in the bottom and mark the spot.
Lastly, the cake pan needs to be a little bit away from the chassis for air flow.
I'll post up more later, gotta get back to the day job.
Some time back, I got tired of the old cordless drill & socket method of annealing, and looked for an easier (but not Giraud or Annealeeze expensive) solution. Mostly because of the large quantities of brass... trying to run 2K through the old way was sucking up WAY too much time.
The first thing I attempted was to use a lead pot with glass media, but I couldn't get it to work, and ended up going through two pots.
After seeing threads on ARF.com and youtube, (laying on the couch with the flu) I decided to give designing and building my own a shot. Meety_Peety was in the same boat, so we've been building our own and kabitzing back and forth via PM for the past months. Mostly sharing experiences, tips, mistakes, etc.
Turns out, there are a lot of tiny details involved with making one that performs well, and I think that I've got most of those figured out.
The first one ended up too big, and had a wrong face plate angle. The second had controls in akward locations, and sensors positioned wrong. The third time was a charm. Here's the result:
One of the biggest pains was to have to order parts from different places, and then wait weeks for them to show up... only to find out I'd ordered the wrong thing. Also a pain was wiring... I fried two proximity sensors while trying to decipher the various wiring diagrams people had posted. (I'm an armorer and a software guy... not an electrics guy).
What I've ended up with is a big chunk of knowledge that I'm intending to share with my fellow calgunners who may want to make their own.
To make this easier, I've made wiring diagrams, ordered the various parts in quantity, and I'm in talks with a local machine shop to manufacture the custom bits (like the white feed drum, brass stop holder, and the torch holder). While watching TV with Mrs. 2111, I've also started making full wiring harnesses.
These things I'll be offering up in the marketplace, along with blueprints.
I'm not planning on making these for people, but I will from time to time. This Lee Red one is actually for a calgunner. (I have 4 others just about finished for some buddies of mine)
Yes, I went for all of the bells and whistles on this one. The digital counter was a nice-to-have, though it added about $25 to the cost of the parts. All in all, I think the total parts cost for this unit was about $130. I'm still figuring out all of the numbers (and yes, waiting for a part or two in the mail still), so I'm not quite ready to start offering build kits... but I'll post an update once they are ready.
If there's a ton of interest in parts kits, I'll put the money down and order more stuff. If lots of people want them built, I'll use it as an excuse to buy a decent table saw.
The purpose of this thread is to share the learnings encountered. It's a very fun project!
I'll post up stuff often as time permits, but here's a bit to start:
Tools:
Mostly, I've use a circular saw, drill press, jig saw, small router, hack saw, dremel with cut off wheels, soldering iron, wire strippers/crimper, and a hand drill.
The chassis:
I went with 3/8 nice finish birch plywood. I hate MDF, but you could use that to save a couple of bucks. Using bent sheet metal or an existing metal cabinet is possible, I've seen people do this in the other threads. Me, I like wood.
The angle of the face plate is very important. If it is too steep, cases will rub against it while rolling down the ramp and get hung up. If it is too shallow, cases will turn as they roll (since they are tapered), and miss the sensors.
The size I've ended up with is approximately 13 x 13.
The hopper where the brass sits is a second layer of wood. This lines up the ramp with the right place on the pan.
Paint:
After trying to find "true dillon blue", waiting for weeks for spray paint to show up, only to have it not match... I just took my super-swager to Lowes and had a small can of paint color matched. I did the same thing with a Lee die box, and an RCBS gauge set. MUCH easier. A small can of paint goes a very long way though.
Power Supply:
After seeing lots of people experimenting with different power supplies, including recycling old PC power supplies (and having a healthy fear of electricity), I opted for a 12 volt system, run from a 2 amp wall-wart. These are cheap and easily available, and if there's a short or other electrical problem, there's only 12 volts running through everything instead of house power.
Proximity Swtich Driven:
Most of the units I've seen people use have two motor controllers, one for the pan motor, one for the feed drum. The problem with this design is that you have to get them perfectly synchronized, and a certain amount out of phase to keep double feeds from happening. Also, there's the chance of "missed" cycles. To get around that, a hall effect proximity switch (which it turns out is cheaper than a second motor controller) is used. This runs the feed drum at full speed whenever a case drops into the drum. (those are the orange dots on the ramp)
Hoppers:
My first one was HUGE. I wanted to be able to load up 500 300BLK cases at at a time, but if you load up too many (as anyone with a Giraud knows), the ones at the top of the pile slip off and end up on the floor. Resist the urge to try and go too big.
A wider "V" at the bottom keeps takes weight off of the feed drum. A steep angle here puts the load on the drum, which puts it on the shaft of the motor. Plus it lets it hold more.
Brass stop:
The simplest design is to use a U-bolt to hold the case in front of the flame. The problem though, is that causes the corner of the U-bolt to get hit by the flame, and get hot. A clever guy on ARF.com came up with a hook-design, which keeps the stop out of the heat, which keeps the heat from ending up being transferred to the chassis.
Feed drum:
This one I'm using has a 1/2 inch notch. It works fine for 5.56, 300BLK, 6.5, and 308. I haven't tried it with anything bigger. Bigger cases would possibly use a second drum with a wider/deeper slot. (I'm going to experiment with this and come up with a magic number, and offer that as a kit option).
Cake pan:
Cut it too tall, and the flame hits it, which transfers heat to the motor. (bad)
Cut it too short, and the brass falls out. (bad)
This size works for 5.56 and 308... it'll probably work for bigger cases as well (still experimenting on that).
Shorter cases like 6.5 and 300BLK require a shallower pan... but changing pans only takes a second with how it's mounted.
There's a taper in the notch geometry that helps keep cases from "hopping" when they drop into position. The trailing edge needs to be a degree or three wider at the base, so the cases drop in head end with a slight lead.
Finding the perfect center of the pan is an exercise in head scratching... there's not sharp corners to measure off of. The best solution I've found is to use a compass and make a template from a thin sheet of plastic, then lay it in the bottom and mark the spot.
Lastly, the cake pan needs to be a little bit away from the chassis for air flow.
I'll post up more later, gotta get back to the day job.
I took a picture of my forster coax and just eyeball matched it at the paint counter. Came out pretty close. Although there is some "hammered red" you can find online that IMO would look great if someone wanted to wait endlessly for it. Never found anything local.
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