Loading 45 ACP - trying to understand the variables

[kcheung2]

An easy mnemonic I use when seating .45 is 1.23 .45

[sghart]

Someone needs to expand their horizons a bit

In actuality, 45 is probably one of the easiest rounds to load for. There's a large list of powders that will work, and most give pretty good results. Because it's got a generous case, runs at lower pressures, pretty much any faster burning powder will run well. For some real fun with a 45, go to a rifle range at night and sling some jacketed slugs downrange. You can literally see the round in flight.

And since it's a lower pressure round with no threat to push velocities above 1000fps data for jacketed and lead kinda interchange. Any jacketed load will work for lead. And since most lead data is lighter, it will usually work fine with jacketed. And plated bullets honestly any published data will work fine.

You have a 230 gr 45 ACP load that does a genuine 1200 fps in a 1911? Please share with us. I have a 150 gr LSWC load that does 1200 fps. A 230 gr load would be something that I would experiment with.

[rm1911]

Loading 45 ACP - trying to understand the variables

You have a 230 gr 45 ACP load that does a genuine 1200 fps in a 1911? Please share with us. I have a 150 gr LSWC load that does 1200 fps. A 230 gr load would be something that I would experiment with.

Absolutely. It's kinda tricky and I don't suggest beginners try this but you take a primed case, fill it to the brim with 2400 or 296, then seat the bullet ever so carefully. Of course you'll need a single stage press, preferrably one of the heavy duty Forster co-ax presses 'cause it takes a s*** ton of force to seat that bullet. Now sometimes it don't work as the case just bulges all to hell and gone and it don't chamber. Sometimes the pressure shoots the primer out. Crazy.

Sometimes ya get the bullet in there and that bullet looks like it's gonna just get pushed right back out. Kinda like a baby's head popping out of the well, you know, and so now it gets difficulter because you apply the crimp. Now, ya can't seat and crimp this load in the same stage, don't ask me how I know, but the video of it was up on you tube until they pulled it down. Something about content inappropriate for public view or something. I don't know.

So now ya gotta turn down that crimp die, and I mean turn that sumbich down. Like you know those heavy crimps you put on a 44 mag Alaska bear hunting bullet, that's a start. This crimp has got to cut its own freaking cannelure. Gotta dig in so far into the projectile that you think you cut the bullet in half. But ya don't.

And that crimp is absolutely essential to get full burn outta 296. That bullet has to stay in the barrel longer'n a musket. You know the shows with old r lee ermey where he fires that revolutionary war musket. There's the trigger pull, the flash, then about 10 seconds later some round piece of lead goes flinging down range. Well, that's about the timeframe you gonna need to get 1200 fps. You'll pull the trigger and damn sure think you got a FTF of hang fire, or whatever. But nope. That bullet is just plugging up the barrel, letting that powder burn and pressure curve build. Kinda like a major bowel blockage. You're all bottled up thinking that it's been about 2 weeks since you dropped a deuce, laid some cable, cleared the pipes, and then yer doctor gives you something to drink and next thing you know it's flying outta ya faster than if ya had Ebola.

I can't verify that this round does 1200 fps because every time I put a chrono in front of the barrel the muzzle blast blows the thing into three dozen pieces. I've already dropped $400 dollars on several chrono graphs. Midway is really good about returns but after the fourth one they finally said enough. Turns out customer is always right isn't always true. Who knew.

But I can tell you that I've punched holes in steel that other regular rounds have just politely ricocheted off of. And here's the thing, and why I don't recommend you try this. I put ear plugs in inside of ear muffs. I've got double protection. Somewhere like 60-70 db reduction. I could work on the flight deck of the USS Ronald Reagan with that level of hearing protection. But this round, the shock waves blasted right through the muffs and plugs and now I gotta see an earologist or something.

I spoke to the dude on the phone, actually my wife did for me, and I explained the problem. He understood. He's coming over next week to load a few of his own.

[Twystd1]

I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

-T

[pennstater]

1200 fps/mv from a .45acp using a 230gr bullet? I don't believe I'll try that one. I like my loads with 230 LRN at around 755-860 mv over the screens. Using "Clays" or Universal. OAL: 1.270" for my gun. 1911 Springfield. These are pleasant to shoot and accurate.

[JagerDog]

Absolutely. It's kinda tricky and I don't suggest beginners try this but you take a primed case, fill it to the brim with 2400 or 296, then seat the bullet ever so carefully. Of course you'll need a single stage press, preferrably one of the heavy duty Forster co-ax presses 'cause it takes a s*** ton of force to seat that bullet. Now sometimes it don't work as the case just bulges all to hell and gone and it don't chamber. Sometimes the pressure shoots the primer out. Crazy.

Sometimes ya get the bullet in there and that bullet looks like it's gonna just get pushed right back out. Kinda like a baby's head popping out of the well, you know, and so now it gets difficulter because you apply the crimp. Now, ya can't seat and crimp this load in the same stage, don't ask me how I know, but the video of it was up on you tube until they pulled it down. Something about content inappropriate for public view or something. I don't know.

So now ya gotta turn down that crimp die, and I mean turn that sumbich down. Like you know those heavy crimps you put on a 44 mag Alaska bear hunting bullet, that's a start. This crimp has got to cut its own freaking cannelure. Gotta dig in so far into the projectile that you think you cut the bullet in half. But ya don't.

And that crimp is absolutely essential to get full burn outta 296. That bullet has to stay in the barrel longer'n a musket. You know the shows with old r lee ermey where he fires that revolutionary war musket. There's the trigger pull, the flash, then about 10 seconds later some round piece of lead goes flinging down range. Well, that's about the timeframe you gonna need to get 1200 fps. You'll pull the trigger and damn sure think you got a FTF of hang fire, or whatever. But nope. That bullet is just plugging up the barrel, letting that powder burn and pressure curve build. Kinda like a major bowel blockage. You're all bottled up thinking that it's been about 2 weeks since you dropped a deuce, laid some cable, cleared the pipes, and then yer doctor gives you something to drink and next thing you know it's flying outta ya faster than if ya had Ebola.

I can't verify that this round does 1200 fps because every time I put a chrono in front of the barrel the muzzle blast blows the thing into three dozen pieces. I've already dropped $400 dollars on several chrono graphs. Midway is really good about returns but after the fourth one they finally said enough. Turns out customer is always right isn't always true. Who knew.

But I can tell you that I've punched holes in steel that other regular rounds have just politely ricocheted off of. And here's the thing, and why I don't recommend you try this. I put ear plugs in inside of ear muffs. I've got double protection. Somewhere like 60-70 db reduction. I could work on the flight deck of the USS Ronald Reagan with that level of hearing protection. But this round, the shock waves blasted right through the muffs and plugs and now I gotta see an earologist or something.

I spoke to the dude on the phone, actually my wife did for me, and I explained the problem. He understood. He's coming over next week to load a few of his own.

[acourvil]

All jokes aside, with 45 Super (much higher chamber pressure than 45 ACP), AND an 8 inch barrel, you might be able to get to 1200fps with a 230gn bullet. With a 45 ACP and a normal length pistol barrel, you will damage your action before you get to that velocity.

[dwightlooi]

You will not get a 230gn bullet to 1200fps in 45acp with any reasonable load. Most factory loaded 230gn rounds are 800-850fps.

The fps/powder charge curve is not linear because the pressure curve is not linear, and the exact curve will vary depending on the powder and projectile used.

My experience is that for 45ACP the seating depth doesn't have a great effect on the observed pressure/fps (at least for the powders I've used). Depending on the gun, it can have significant effect on how smoothly the gun cycles (and whether you get feed problems). 1.200 is on the short side for a 230gn round; if you have feed problems, try moving it out to 1.250 or so.

You are absolutely right. Seating depth has very little effect on velocity or pressure in the 45. This is so because the 45ACP is totally a pressure limited cartridge, not a volume limited cartridge. Most loads does not get anywhere near filling the case. Powders that are slow enough not to break the pressure limits of 45ACP +P or even 45 Super with a full case generally are too slow to fully burn and produce efficient velocity returns in a 4" or 5" barrel. Powders that work well in 4~5" of barrel will reach the pressure limits with the case half full (give or take). A 230 grain bullet seated to 1.250~1.275" will leave room for about 12~14 grains of powder -- depending on the bullet and powder. You'll fill the case with about a third to half that!

That is why the 45 GAP (Glock Auto Pistol) was created. It was realized that you can shorten the case and lose zero performance while enabling the round to fit in frames designed for 9mm and 40S&W length cartridges. That is also why I don't try to get the most velocity out of the 45ACP like I do with the 40 or other high pressure chamberings (it's futile). The 45 is a big, slow, not particularly energetic cartridge that is easy to shoot and easy on the gun. It will always be. If that is not your cup of tea, shoot something else!

Having said that, CFE Pistol is just an "OK" powder for 45. You'll use about 40% more of it than say Titegroup and get the same approximate velocity. Hodgdon's velocity claims are bullsh|t! I am lucky to get in the upper 800s at max load with 230s. You also cannot create the classic "barely major" loads (185 gr @ 900 fps) using the CFE. You are pushing about 1000 fps at minimum load. In fact, it gets dirty if you go near or below minimum so you'll want to keep CFE at or near max for best cleanliness and minimum velocity spread. I use it because I want to keep just one pistol powder for 9, 357 SIG, 40 and 45. But if you are a competitive shooter with the 45 go with Titegroup.

[mofo1111]

Just to jump in here the OPer said he is/will be using coated (poly ) rounds. How are those working out for you guys? Any feed issues? I have CZs and I've been told they can be finicky.....but my CZ will eat anything....brass cased.

The OP said he was using Berry's Bullets. These are copper plated bullets.

I have just started using Blue Bullets in .40 cal. They work great and are accurate in P226.

I tried Black Bullets International and did not like any combination in 9mm. I had to seat them too deep in case. If I seated them any longer, they would engage the barrel rifling. They were the cone profile. The profile did just didn't work well with my Barsto barrel. My Glock will accept a longer COAL in 9mm, but Glock recommends only jacketed bullets. The BBI bullets just didn't work out that well for me. Other people seem to like them. YMMV.

I have some ACME "red" bullets in 45, but haven't loaded them yet.

[Maltese Falcon]

Absolutely. It's kinda tricky and I don't suggest beginners try this but you take a primed case, fill it to the brim with 2400 or 296, then seat the bullet ever so carefully. Of course you'll need a single stage press, preferrably one of the heavy duty Forster co-ax presses 'cause it takes a s*** ton of force to seat that bullet. Now sometimes it don't work as the case just bulges all to hell and gone and it don't chamber. Sometimes the pressure shoots the primer out. Crazy.

Sometimes ya get the bullet in there and that bullet looks like it's gonna just get pushed right back out. Kinda like a baby's head popping out of the well, you know, and so now it gets difficulter because you apply the crimp. Now, ya can't seat and crimp this load in the same stage, don't ask me how I know, but the video of it was up on you tube until they pulled it down. Something about content inappropriate for public view or something. I don't know.

So now ya gotta turn down that crimp die, and I mean turn that sumbich down. Like you know those heavy crimps you put on a 44 mag Alaska bear hunting bullet, that's a start. This crimp has got to cut its own freaking cannelure. Gotta dig in so far into the projectile that you think you cut the bullet in half. But ya don't.

And that crimp is absolutely essential to get full burn outta 296. That bullet has to stay in the barrel longer'n a musket. You know the shows with old r lee ermey where he fires that revolutionary war musket. There's the trigger pull, the flash, then about 10 seconds later some round piece of lead goes flinging down range. Well, that's about the timeframe you gonna need to get 1200 fps. You'll pull the trigger and damn sure think you got a FTF of hang fire, or whatever. But nope. That bullet is just plugging up the barrel, letting that powder burn and pressure curve build. Kinda like a major bowel blockage. You're all bottled up thinking that it's been about 2 weeks since you dropped a deuce, laid some cable, cleared the pipes, and then yer doctor gives you something to drink and next thing you know it's flying outta ya faster than if ya had Ebola.

I can't verify that this round does 1200 fps because every time I put a chrono in front of the barrel the muzzle blast blows the thing into three dozen pieces. I've already dropped $400 dollars on several chrono graphs. Midway is really good about returns but after the fourth one they finally said enough. Turns out customer is always right isn't always true. Who knew.

But I can tell you that I've punched holes in steel that other regular rounds have just politely ricocheted off of. And here's the thing, and why I don't recommend you try this. I put ear plugs in inside of ear muffs. I've got double protection. Somewhere like 60-70 db reduction. I could work on the flight deck of the USS Ronald Reagan with that level of hearing protection. But this round, the shock waves blasted right through the muffs and plugs and now I gotta see an earologist or something.

I spoke to the dude on the phone, actually my wife did for me, and I explained the problem. He understood. He's coming over next week to load a few of his own.

You sir are a dangerous man...

.

[mofo1111]