Help with Sierra 125fnhp

[SBsasquatch]

Do these need a hefty crimp or what?

Edit: I am loading Sierras 125 fnhp for my win 94. chambered in 30wcf. I seated all of them to the crimp. I'd have to check my notes for exact. The crimps were light but they were there. All rounds were fired that chambered without issue.

I loaded some up and got a bunch of failures to feed. Cycling the action swiftly the cartridge would nose dive in the chamber so to speak. Causing the projectile to slide past my poor excuse of a crimp, and rest on the powder. These were starting charges in my work up and the set back was significant. Anyways I'll try a more stout crimp going forward.

Anybody else comes across this problem/issue.

Also any chance someone could post data from the latest edition for imr4064 &blc2. Just curious where I'm at thanks.

[ironhorse1]

There is a lack of information in your post so no one can provide the answers that you seek.

A 94 with a Sierra 125 fnhp could be in 30-30 or .357 or a few other calibers that use 125 grain bullets.

Is this a Winchester 94 or a Marlin 1894?

While a crimp is needed for tubular magazines it is still case neck tension that primarily holds a bullet tight. To much crimp or an excessive crimp may actually have the opposite effect and lead to a loose bullet or setting back the shoulder of the case.

Please fill in the details exactly as needed about your rifle and caliber. A picture of a reloaded round would be helpful as well.

irh

[SBsasquatch]

Touche'- updating op

[SBsasquatch]

Also I'm setting the crimp with Lee's collet crimp that comes with a pacesetter set.

[ironhorse1]

Ok now that we know the facts we can discuss checking for the problems.

I have already looked at the bullet and of course it is shorter than a 150 or 170 grain. It does have a nice cannelure for crimping.

First some questions. Do you trim the cases to a uniform length?
If you push the nose of a loaded cartridge against a bench does the bullet move?
Are the shoulders of loaded rounds set back or do they look normal?

You can compare to a factory load or check the specs in your manual.

A picture would sure be helpful. I really do not put much crimp on a 30-30 because the case neck is very long providing a lot of tension. I do not crimp cast bullet loads.

I'll check my 94 for feed angle with a short dummy round to see what might be the source of the problem.

irh

[SBsasquatch]

I trim my brass with a Lee case trimmer. Brass was on its 4th round of full house loading, and only being neck sized prior.

[ironhorse1]

Ok I'm back from some testing.

A 94 will not feed an empty case. Apparently the bullet weight is important to the dynamics of the feeding process.

The round will feed as long as there is even a small amount of bullet nose beyond the case mouth.

Once the bullet is below the case mouth the cartridge will no longer feed.

I suggest that you may have some loose bullets that are being pushed into the case in the magazine.

Check some rounds by filling the tube and slowing levering then out to check bullet OAL.This will not duplicate firing but it's a start.

Let us know what you may find in the process.

irh

[bigbossman]

Are you using a Lee four die pacesetter set, and using the special neck sizer only die instead of the regular sizing die? If so, use the regular sizing die.

If not, then make sure you are sizing enough of the neck, and also mic the bullets to make sure they are not undersized. Also, do as ironhorse1 suggests and see if you can set back the bullet by pushing a loaded round against the bench.

I had the same issue with 110gr bullets in my 30-30. Too little neck tension was the issue.

[SBsasquatch]

Iron horse -first off let me say thank you for taking the time to help me. Second, I think you are on to something. I think it's possible this is happening before being chambered. I think neck tension is the issue. I'll try that.

Bigbossman- correct, they were neck sized only. Lee collet..

[ironhorse1]

I was happy to help and learned something in the process myself.

I do believe there are a lot of crimping type issues as reloaders try to hard crimp a round to solve a loose bullet issue.

irh

[Witch Hunter]

Agree with both of you guys here. Use the FL sizer for lever actions, it will just not have any issues like you are seeing. Trim your cases and crimp a nice crimp in the cannalure. If you can push it hard against the bench and it still moves, you have neck tension issues. Measure a neck of a loaded round compared to a reloaded one. They should be the same. + or - .001. Now, I must ask why are you shooting 125 grainers instead of 150 or 170's? You really aren't going to pick up any improvement to speak of, the old girl has been working great with 150/170 bullets for well over a hundred years. She does what she is capable of and not much more, but she does it well.

[bigbossman]

Bigbossman- correct, they were neck sized only. Lee collet..

I suspected as much. It just doesn't seem to work for the 30-30. I had the exact same issue, and when I switched from the collet die to the regular sizing die the problem went away. Glad you got it sorted out.

Agree with both of you guys here. Use the FL sizer for lever actions, it will just not have any issues like you are seeing. Trim your cases and crimp a nice crimp in the cannalure. If you can push it hard against the bench and it still moves, you have neck tension issues. Measure a neck of a loaded round compared to a reloaded one. They should be the same. + or - .001. Now, I must ask why are you shooting 125 grainers instead of 150 or 170's? You really aren't going to pick up any improvement to speak of, the old girl has been working great with 150/170 bullets for well over a hundred years. She does what she is capable of and not much more, but she does it well.

The smaller bullets work very well in the 30-30, and make a very nice, accurate, inexpensive plinking round. I used 30 carbine bullets with exceptional results. I have won many silhouette competitions using the smaller bullet. Less recoil, good accuracy, and cheap to shoot.

[SBsasquatch]

I'm gonna try again on some once fired brass, I'll place a more solid crimp and check using the method above.

I enjoy finding loads for different bullet weights on all the rifles I own. I find a load that groups well-document it and move on.
So far:

3006:
nosler ballistic tipped-125,150,165
Hornady-150fmjbt, 178amax
Barnes-130ttsx

3030:
Nosler-125bt, 170partition
Hornady- 150rn interlock*my favorite
Sierra-125hp
Xtreme copper plated- 110Rn

223: hornady 68bthp

[ironhorse1]

Remember what I posted about crimping? Crimp lightly just a touch on the mouth into the cannelure.30-30 cases are thin and will crush. Your press has a lot of force and can easily over crimp a case . I already know that you are trimming your case lengths are all the same.

While a crimp is needed for tubular magazines it is still case neck tension that primarily holds a bullet tight. To much crimp or an excessive crimp may actually have the opposite effect and lead to a loose bullet or setting back the shoulder of the case.

Good luck you will get this done right..

irh

[SBsasquatch]

Thanks for the help guys. I loaded up another batch, and I think I got it right.

Coal- 2.416
Full length sized
Crimped
IMAG0322.jpg