44 Mag OAL and allowable variance

[Erichp]

Hi Folks,
I am not a reloader, rather I need to inspect a number of commercial rounds that were compressed during shipping. Unfortunately I cant get any responses or contact with PMC to get their factory spec, powders, etc. I am hoping for some guidelines regarding the OAL and effect on pressures that could effect safety.

Background: Ordered 1000 rounds of PMC 44 mag 240gr JHP from Palmetto. Consistent with their practice, they just threw a shipping label on the thin factory box and UPS did the rest. Box arrived destroyed, missing rounds, and all individual ammo boxes at the corners showed crush damage. This compressed a number or rounds, depressing their bullets further into the case, some past their cannelures. Palmetto will replace the damaged rounds that are not safe or questionable, but need to determine how many there are.

Note, they would exchange, but the gent was honest and said they would send it exactly the same way and no guarantee things would end better on a swap. They are replacing missing rounds, and will send additional based on damage. Most expeditiousness even if its labor intensive on my side.

I've sampled the rounds from boxes without crush damage and rounds appear to consistently run OAL @ 1.595". A cartridge with a bullet depressed so that the end of the cannelure margin is seen (30x loop) at end of case has OAL of 1.565".

How much variation would be allowable and still have the rounds safe without worry about overpressure. Am I good to go if crimp is still obviously on cannelure (say up to .020" compressed), or what is a max amount of compression that would be a good rule of them to not run under. For example, no more than .010" down down to OAL 1.585" and reject under a given threshold??

Appreciate any info

[W.R.Buchanan]

Anything that is compressed past the cannelure is a send back.

The reason is twofold.

1. the crimp has been opened up and those bullets will move around under recoil and eventually cause problems.

2. any short ones will cause pressure spikes which is nothing to mess with on this round which is factory loaded to 36,000 psi.

The one on the right is a perfect example. It could be fixed by pulling the bullet forward with an inertia bullet puller (but not all the way out) and then reseating and roll crimping it at 1.595-1.610.

The one on the left is more of the same, the crimp has been opened but the bullet hasn't been pushed back that far. Still it needs to be pulled and reseated.. If they are only going to replace those which are damaged it might be better to just send them back and take your chances on the reshipment.

Since you don't reload this is probably your only option.

Point here,,, is that if the cartridge doesn't look like the one in the middle it needs to be returned.

I really don't understand why Palmetto can't just box stuff up correctly to begin with, I doubt they are saving that much money and the returns would kill them eventually, not to mention the harm to their reputation.

Randy

[Erichp]

I appreciate that feedback Randy. I had assumed the ones sunk beyond the cannelure were goners for the reasons you'd listed.

Its those that have minor compression, say between .003" to .015" I am curious about. These still have a bit of cannelure margin left so I am not concerned the crimp would have been compromised, but their pressures may be higher.

Given that factory placement seem to give up to .030" of remaining cannelure above the case, I realize as it gets in that few thousands of margin, the crimp could start to be flared. So I arbitrary think initial pass says anything between .015 and .020 is a no go for me as I don't have a way to pull and recrimp.

So its those tweeners. I have quite a few that are only up to .003" to .005" compressed for example. Without getting an actual minimum spec from PMC (it could be < then my avg 1.595") I am assuming what that is, but dont have any idea or way to reference how potentially significant just a couple thousandths are (up to ??) to set that threshold of No Go.

Any ideas on what a reasonable threshold would be great. Of course if any deviation is no bueno, that would be good to know as well.

Thank again.

[W.R.Buchanan]

As long as there is some cannelure visible you'll be alright.

When I load Jacketed bullets in the .44's I seat them to where the top of the case is just below the top edge of the cannelure. Then when I apply the crimp it just folds the top edge of the case down into the cannelure which grabs the bullet on the lower edge of the cannelure.

As long as the top edge of the case is in the cannelure you'll be fine a few thou either way won't hurt anything.

The cartridge on the right side of your picture is the one that will hurt you.

The one on the left is marginal but given your circumstances I'd send it back.

This is mishandled Factory ammo,, no need to err on the vendors side. Just send everything that shows signs of impact back and make them fix it. I wouldn't waste time measuring each one, just visually inspect. You can tell just by looking which ones are bad.

Best advice I can give you.

Randy

[robert101]

Yes. I agree with WRB.

[Carcassonne]

That is a weak crimp for a magnum cartridge.

.

[Pardini]

Send it all back, if the replacements show up in the same condition send it all back too.

[Fishslayer]

That is a weak crimp for a magnum cartridge.

.

This is just a guess but I doubt that they use a slow powder like H110 and I also doubt they load it to max pressures. I don't actually crimp a whole lot more than that for full house loads.

[JagerDog]

I agree with WR. If no cannelure, bad round.