Need help developing .32 S&W Long load

[MatCat]

Bullet is Rainier LeadSafe 100 grain plated flat nose https://www.midwayusa.com/product/76...-bulk-packaged

Powder will be W231, and CCI SP Primer. This will be my first venture into reloading (I also got .45 ACP dies and stuff to load that as well), what I am unsure of is for this bullet how far should I seat it, and how much of the powder to start with? Will be shooting from an H&R Auto Eject (rated for smokeless), just looking for something fairly accurate to plink with.

[ironhorse1]

Even though I load .32 S&W Long I shoot them only in modern revolvers.

The problem with using jacketed or plated bullets is that the powder charge is so small one needs to be aware of the possibility of a stuck bullet in the barrel.

As far as 231 and a 100 grain bullet Speer #14 lists a charge of 2.6 grains with a do not reduce warning. Velocity is listed at 676 FPS and will probably be ok in a break top.

Lead or cast bullets would be better as they are less inclined to get stuck at low velocities and can be used with lower powder charges. It's all about friction.

Take care of that old gun. Just my .02.

irh

[Plain Old Dave]

You're basically making a 32 Colt New Police (32 S&W Long with flatpoint bullet; the flatpoint bullet is why Police Comissioner Theodore Roosevelt insisted the NYPD adopt Colt Police Positive revolvers over S&W Hand Ejectors). Why W231? Why not Unique or something else? Given you're making shooting ammo for a top break, Trail Boss might not be a bad idea, either, as it was intended to keep chamber pressures and velocities low for Cowboy Action shooting. Lower friction is an interesting idea, but decreasing chamber pressure is to my mind more of a concern as hot loads can make top breaks "shoot loose."

As to COAL, any reputable loading manual will have your max overall length.

Other question that presents itself. Why plated bullets? Any bulk caster worth their salt should have a bulk 85-100gr plain lead bullet, and given the popularity of Cowboy Action shooting, I would expect most of not all of them to be flatpointed. Cheaper, lower chamber pressure, and no need for plated at the low velocities you'll be at. I agree with Elmer Keith in that there's no real reason for anything other than plain lead bullets, reasonably hard, til you get over 1000-1100 f/s. And if you get gas seepage at higher velocities, simple gas checks will solve the problem nicely.

[MatCat]

You're basically making a 32 Colt New Police (32 S&W Long with flatpoint bullet; the flatpoint bullet is why Police Comissioner Theodore Roosevelt insisted the NYPD adopt Colt Police Positive revolvers over S&W Hand Ejectors). Why W231? Why not Unique or something else? Given you're making shooting ammo for a top break, Trail Boss might not be a bad idea, either, as it was intended to keep chamber pressures and velocities low for Cowboy Action shooting. Lower friction is an interesting idea, but decreasing chamber pressure is to my mind more of a concern as hot loads can make top breaks "shoot loose."

As to COAL, any reputable loading manual will have your max overall length.

Other question that presents itself. Why plated bullets? Any bulk caster worth their salt should have a bulk 85-100gr plain lead bullet, and given the popularity of Cowboy Action shooting, I would expect most of not all of them to be flatpointed. Cheaper, lower chamber pressure, and no need for plated at the low velocities you'll be at. I agree with Elmer Keith in that there's no real reason for anything other than plain lead bullets, reasonably hard, til you get over 1000-1100 f/s. And if you get gas seepage at higher velocities, simple gas checks will solve the problem nicely.

W231 because I am just starting out and it is usable across all the handguns I have and shoot, and also the only powder available at local gun shops that fits across all the handguns, just 1 powder to buy and have for now. Unique and bullseye where also on my list to look for but nobody has them locally. My selection of the bullet was merely a function of thrifyness as I ordered my reloading gear from midway and it was the only .32 option they had for sale that interested me. Eventually I want to get a lead pot and some molds, but that is down the road.

[ironhorse1]

With cast a 100 grain bullet can be loaded with 1.9 grains of 231 with velocities over 700 fps. Softer shooting less pressure and a better choice for a break top.

Be aware that .32 caliber bullets come in three sizes at .312" .313" .314".

The best bullet choice will be the one that is the best fit in your cylinder throats.

I agree with Plain Old Dave that in the .32 lead bullets is all that is needed.

Midway offers several weights and sizes in cast bullets.

Just be sure that all those plated bullets exit the barrel. It can be really hard to tell when shooting unless there is no hole in the target or you hear something out of the ordinary.

irh

[rm1911]

Try to find some trail boss. You'll be happy if you do. Also, try bullseye. Really can't undercharge it. Even 1gr will pop out a lead bullet.

I know you have 231. Maybe it's not the best choice.

[MatCat]

Thanks, I did a bunch of research around the web, and I think I have a starting point to experiment with these bullets. Soon I will invest in a 2nd jar of a different type of powder and other bullets, but I have much homework to do to really narrow down what I want to get next for what I am doing and plan to do. It will be really helpful once I get the lee 2nd edition book with the reloading gear I ordered and have had some time to read through it, as well as other sources on the web.

[MatCat]

My reloading gear came today WOOHOO! So I went right to work developing this .32 S&W Long load! Using the 100 grain Rainier Lead Safe plated flat point I first loaded it with 2.2 grains of w231, and seated the bullet to an OAL of 1.245. It fired fine and hit the piece of FIR I used as a target, however as you can see from the pic it didn't penetrate very well . So I loaded up another round with 2.3 grains and that is the deeper bullet in the wood.



I then proceeded to load up the remaining 30 cases I have,most of them I loaded to 2.4 grains with an OAL of 1.250, though I did make a few at 2.5 grains, as well as a few with an OAL of 1.260 and 2.6 grains. Those will have to wait until tomorrow for testing .

[noylj]

Let's get serious. Your questions imply that you havn't read a manual or didn't follow what was in the manual.

>what I am unsure of is for this bullet how far should I seat it

This is true for EVERY bullet in EVERY gun, as the COL (Cartridge Overall Length) depends on the bullet and gun and not what a manual used for testing.
In a revolver, COL is really easy--the bullet can't extend past the front of the barrel. Generally, you need a roll crimp, so you buy bullets that have a cannelure or crimp groove and you roll crimp in the groove. If no groove and there is any real recoil, you might need to roll crimp over the bullet ogive. In this case, recoil is not an issue.

> and how much of the powder to start with?

Load data either comes with a start load—and that is where you START loading at—or it only lists a max load, so you reduce the max charge weight by 10-12% and that is your start load. You can load 2-5 rounds at the start load and then five more in increments of 0.1-0.3gn, such that from start to max you have about 5 steps. For S&W Long, you'll find the charge weight so small that a 10% drop from a max charge of 3.0gn means a start load of 2.7gn, so the increments are seldom more then 0.1gn.

>Will be shooting from an H&R Auto Eject (rated for smokeless), just looking for something fairly accurate to plink with.

Has it been inspected by a gunsmith to ensure it is in good shape (timing, cylinder alignment, etc.)? Assuming this is a break-top, keep pressure WAY down. Never ever assume that MY pet load will be safe in YOUR gun--work the load up every time ups change bullet or powder lot or COL from a start load in a manual. Remember, pressure depends on the gun's chamber (varies from gun to gun), the lot of powder (each lot varies from the others by a small but sometimes very significant amount), the bullet used (bearing length.for example), the COL used (shorter COL can cause pressure to rise quicker than longer COL), and even the primers and cases used. A manual or my results can be no more than a guideline, so always start at the start load. I prefer to use several manuals and start at the lowest start load.

[MatCat]

Though I do appreciate your canned response, I will point out that you did not thoroughly understand my question, that is OK though because upon re-reading it I did not really make it obvious, but the bullet / bullet type / and weight of the bullet I chose to start with is a bit odd, it's not in any reloading data, hence my questions about OAL and amount of powder, I was mainly hoping to see someone else that has used this particular bullet and powder to see what they may have done. If you scroll down to my last post just above yours you will see that I infact came up with, and tested a load, they worked! I tweaked them a bit to get them to work better.

Oh and as far as implying I didn't read the manual, well no in a direct sense I did not, as I didn't have any manuals until my shipment of reloading gear came, however that really doesn't matter as it has only re-enforced what I learned from the internet before it came, as I spent the last week solid researching.

Also as far as the timing of the pistol goes, I inspected it, the timing is good enough for me to feel comfortable shooting it, I mean do you really think I am just going to willy nilly start loaded for a gun I know nothing about? I prefer to keep my right hand intact .

[ironhorse1]

I'm looking at your wood test shots and the penetration I see is a good indicator of very low velocity.

I would still be concerned with having a squib load and damaging your barrel.

Those bullets are much more suitable for .32 H&R magnum or .327 Federal loads.

I would suggest that you get some HB wadcutters or at least some cast bullets.

You might want to discontinue use of the plated and sell them unless you get another .32 more suitable for plated bullets.

I have shot the Speer 100 grain jacketed in a S&W hand ejector. The load used was 7 grains of H110 as listed in the manual.

This was safe in a modern revolver.

I know that you are new to reloading.

I just wish that you had asked here first so you would get some insight on the components suitable for your revolver.

Keep a brass rod handy in case you do stick a bullet. It can and does happen when you least expect it.

irh

[noylj]

>Though I do appreciate your canned response, I will point out that you did not thoroughly understand my question, that is OK though because upon re-reading it I did not really make it obvious, but the bullet / bullet type / and weight of the bullet I chose to start with is a bit odd, it's not in any reloading data, hence my questions about OAL and amount of powder, I was mainly hoping to see someone else that has used this particular bullet and powder to see what they may have done. If you scroll down to my last post just above yours you will see that I infact came up with, and tested a load, they worked! I tweaked them a bit to get them to work better.

Well, your post about shooting was NOT there when I posted. Vagaries of the 'net.
My "canned response?" I thought I addressed actual questions you made and tried to give the best response I could. If you already knew that, then you also knew that plated bullets use lead bullet data and you never need special data for a given bullet, just for bullets of the same construction and you start at the start load.
If you read what you wrote, you did not come off as though you really knew what you were writing and I really do mean it: be sure to read some manuals—reloading can be dangerous without knowledge.
Next, you are dealing with a low pressure cartridge in a low pressure gun often referred to, erroniously, as a "Saturday Night Special," so don't even try to push a load beyond what a manual shows.
Beginners should generally start with common cartridges and jacketed bullets and expand from there as their knowledge grows.
You are starting with a "oddball" cartridge in an old and questionable gun using a bullet that you even admit is a odd choice...

[ironhorse1]

To the OP and noylj try to act in a positive manner and keep this thread informative and interesting for others who might be following.

To the OP: your "canned response" statement to help offered would be considered condescending at the very least. There is no need here to belittle those who would offer their advice.

Now that I have that out of the way I checked volume 2 of Ken Waters Pet Loads for his take on the use of 231.

Note that his loads were tested in a Colt Officer's Model Heavy Barrel, not a break top.

All bullets are cast.

In a six inch barrel a 91 grain cast bullet.

2.7 grains of 231 @ 814 fps
3.0 grains of 231 @ 905 fps

112 grain cast bullet.

2.5 grains of 231 @ 712 fps
2.8 grains of 231 @ 812 fps

I post this for informational purposes only and is not a recommendation of these loads in your gun with plated bullets.

irh

[MatCat]

Now that I have that out of the way I checked volume 2 of Ken Waters Pet Loads for his take on the use of 231.

Note that his loads were tested in a Colt Officer's Model Heavy Barrel, not a break top.

All bullets are cast.

In a six inch barrel a 91 grain cast bullet.

2.7 grains of 231 @ 814 fps
3.0 grains of 231 @ 905 fps

112 grain cast bullet.

2.5 grains of 231 @ 712 fps
2.8 grains of 231 @ 812 fps

I post this for informational purposes only and is not a recommendation of these loads in your gun with plated bullets.

irh

I went out today and shot about 20 rounds, most of the loads where 2.4 grain though I did test a few other loads. For the most part they worked well, where very accurate and enough penetration / FPS for plinking. One thing I notice is sometimes not all of the powder burns, I think this is a powder position and volume issue as 2.4 grains of w231 just doesn't take up a lot of space, one of the reasons that drives me to this conclusion was one round that was aimed low had almost no power and a lot of unburnt powder, however if I raised the gun up as to ensure powder towards the back of the case before shooting it would have good enough power and not leave unburnt powder. I tested a couple rounds at 2.5 grain and didn't notice any difference in power or penetration, and no signs of over preasure, I also tried a few with a longer OAL and going up to 2.6 grain, these actually had less penetration then the hotter shorter loads, I am not surprised though as the extra case space probably just means lower preasure. I am going to load a batch up at 2.5 and a batch up at 2.6 grains. I really don't think I am hitting any major pressure issues for this gun, everyone is so afraid to load rounds for these break tops and for the most part I tend to agree in that most of them are black powder models, but this revolver even being a break top is designed for smokeless, sofar with the 2.4 and 2.5 grain loads I am seeing nothing to concern me and I think going to 2.6 grains will be OK. Soon though I want to get a slower higher volume powder to try, I would love to try 700x as its cheap and gives a lot of volume, but I can't find any loading data for 700x in .32 s&w long. I wonder how CFE Pistol is too, I noticed the local gun shop has it and its one of the cheaper powders too. More conventional cast bullets will come next internet order to a reloading vendor in about 2 weeks .

[ironhorse1]

I'm happy to hear that you have learned something about your powder choice.

It would appear that 231 is very position sensitive even in a very small case.

Top powders for .32 SWL are Bullseye,Red Dot,Green Dot and Unique.

Bullseye has no issues with position even with loads of less than 2 grains.

OAL is important as well as a firm crimp even with plated. You should tighten the crimp until you only see half of the case mouth. This will form an annular ring around the bullet and will not damage the plating.

OAL should run 1.250"-1.300"

As far as seeing pressure signs this is never going to happen unless you overcharge a case. Pressure is in the 9,000 psi range for the long.

Speer #14 lists 700-X loads of 1.5-1.7 grains with a 98 grain HBWC.

Try the Missouri 100 grain flat point or a wadcutter cast or swagged. The Missouri bullet has a shoulder to crimp into and WC bullets can be seated flush with the case mouth. Much better choice than the plated for this caliber. I know broken record.

irh