First time casting, .578 minie balls

[Unsilenced]

So I tried casting today for the first time and I have some questions/issues that came up.

First, I'm using a small lee melting pot and a lee mold that was .578 caliber since the next size down was .575, which would be too small. The resulting balls are a bit too big for the muzzle on my Pedersoli P-53, but I'm planning to re-size them once I find a good sizer.

The first issue I had was with the constant formation of skin on the top of the lead. I had expected this to some extent, based on what I had seen on videos, but the lead constantly formed a copperish crust and, instead of turning nice and silver with it removed (as I saw online) the lead would only ever produce more crust. I eventually realized I could convert all 20lbs of lead I had into little balls of goldish flakes or get over it, so I just plunged the dipper through and started working. I don't think this crust had any negative impact on the balls as lead poured out the bottom of the dipper, but the staggering amount of it produced compared to what I had seen in online videos alarmed me. It built up in the dipper with every dip and had to be knocked free into my slag bucket frequently. I wondered if I might have overheated the metal, but based on the other problems I had I also think I might not have heated it enough.

The second problem is that I just can't seem to pour fast enough, meaning that almost all of my resulting balls have seams in them. I heated the lead as hot as the little furnace would go, dipped in the dipper, and then immediately poured as fast and hard as I could into the hole. This gave me minie balls that look usable and much better than when I tried to pour slower, but I still had a roughly 50% rejection rate, mostly due to visible marks, cracks, or deformation in the skirt of the bullet.

A few more I rejected based on weight, deciding that 480-485 grains was going to be my acceptance range. I might decide to throw back in a few that were otherwise fine but a bit too heavy, seeing as I otherwise had such a small lot.


A few questions I had include

-Was this coppery looking crust that turned into gold flakes a normal thing, and should I continue trying to skim it or work around it? Is it a sign of something wrong?
-Is it normal for the surface of the ball to look slightly irregular and not smooth?
-Is there some way to improve pouring so that I get less seams and improve my rejection rate?
-What sort of tolerances should I look for in weight? Is 5 grains a wild deviation or am I being too exacting?
-Are there defects that could compromise my safety or damage my rifle that I should look out for? I know to check the skirts so that they don't fall apart in the barrel, and use weight to test if there's any large cavities, but are there other tests I should preform?

[Capt.Dunsel]

You using pure lead , or some alloy ?

Sounds like it isn't pure lead.

You making round balls or minie balls ?

If round balls , your mold isn't hot enough , isn't mating properly ( your "crease")

You try pouring down the side of the sprue plate into the mold ( causing a swirling action for better fill)

Post up some pics , it might help.

[pacrat]

Like Capt Dunsel, I often answer questions, with questions. In order to give a more concise on point answer.

-
[1]...Was this coppery looking crust that turned into gold flakes a normal thing, and should I continue trying to skim it or work around it? Is it a sign of something wrong?
[2]...-Is it normal for the surface of the ball to look slightly irregular and not smooth?
[3]...-Is there some way to improve pouring so that I get less seams and improve my rejection rate?
[4]...-What sort of tolerances should I look for in weight? Is 5 grains a wild deviation or am I being too exacting?

[1]....only Pure Lead should be used for ML bullets or balls. You can make pure lead if the alloy doesn't contain "zinc". By heating to molten, unfluxed alloy. And skimming "dross", which is dirt, debri, unwanted metals in alloy like "tin" and "antimony". Tin and antimony dross is grey colored, and wrinkly crumbly looking. Dirt and "crap" dross is brown to black looking and crumbly in texture.

If lead is pure or near so. Believe it or not, the coppery/goldy sheen that gets flaky is "lead rust" aka "Pb oxide". Or plain old oxidized lead. Heating metals causes them to rapidly oxidize on the surface.

If you're sure it's not tin or antimony. {stir it in,... dip deep in pot,... raise ladle UP through it,... pour} The coppery stuff on top will not displace the non oxidized metal in the ladel, it will shed off and return to top of pot. You'll drive yourself nuts trying to remove it, because it self generates.

[2]...If by "slightly irregular" and "not smooth" you mean rather "frosty" looking that means your lead is a bit to hot and has some antimony in it. If you mean "wrinkled" that is indicative of a mold not up to heat or poured to slow.

[3]...Yes, there is. It is called a bottom pour pot. More expensive than an open pot and ladel. But much easier to use. And all the dross/crap floats on top and doesn't affect the bullets made from the bottom.

[4]...5 grain variation is likely to small to even notice from an accuracy standpoint. The more consistent you make your overall loads the more you can blame yourself for missing.

Before starting to make pours. I heat pot with mold blocks sitting on top of it for a few minutes. Then for like 30 seconds before pour. I deep dip, corner of mold blocks into lead to bring them to optimum temp. The closer the lead and blocks are to the same temp. The less rejects you will experience.

[Unsilenced]

You using pure lead , or some alloy ?

Sounds like it isn't pure lead.

You making round balls or minie balls ?

If round balls , your mold isn't hot enough , isn't mating properly ( your "crease")

You try pouring down the side of the sprue plate into the mold ( causing a swirling action for better fill)

Post up some pics , it might help.

It was marketed as "99% Pure," and dents easily under my fingernail. Other than that, I don't know much about it.

These are minie balls, for a rifled musket. I could try heating the mold more, as I only really held it over a flame for a little bit to get it blackened up and prevent sticking. How do you recommend heating the mold? Over a stove-top or something? Should I do this repeatedly while molding or will constant re-pouring be enough to keep in the right temperature once I'm started?

I'm curious what you mean by pouring over the sprue plate. I tried to get as much lead as directly as possible into the hole to avoid cooling, but if I heated the mold more I suppose that would be less of an issue?

Like Capt Dunsel, I often answer questions, with questions. In order to give a more concise on point answer.




[1]....only Pure Lead should be used for ML bullets or balls. You can make pure lead if the alloy doesn't contain "zinc". By heating to molten, unfluxed alloy. And skimming "dross", which is dirt, debri, unwanted metals in alloy like "tin" and "antimony". Tin and antimony dross is grey colored, and wrinkly crumbly looking. Dirt and "crap" dross is brown to black looking and crumbly in texture.

If lead is pure or near so. Believe it or not, the coppery/goldy sheen that gets flaky is "lead rust" aka "Pb oxide". Or plain old oxidized lead. Heating metals causes them to rapidly oxidize on the surface.

If you're sure it's not tin or antimony. {stir it in,... dip deep in pot,... raise ladle UP through it,... pour} The coppery stuff on top will not displace the non oxidized metal in the ladel, it will shed off and return to top of pot. You'll drive yourself nuts trying to remove it, because it self generates.

[2]...If by "slightly irregular" and "not smooth" you mean rather "frosty" looking that means your lead is a bit to hot and has some antimony in it. If you mean "wrinkled" that is indicative of a mold not up to heat or poured to slow.

[3]...Yes, there is. It is called a bottom pour pot. More expensive than an open pot and ladel. But much easier to use. And all the dross/crap floats on top and doesn't affect the bullets made from the bottom.

[4]...5 grain variation is likely to small to even notice from an accuracy standpoint. The more consistent you make your overall loads the more you can blame yourself for missing.

Before starting to make pours. I heat pot with mold blocks sitting on top of it for a few minutes. Then for like 30 seconds before pour. I deep dip, corner of mold blocks into lead to bring them to optimum temp. The closer the lead and blocks are to the same temp. The less rejects you will experience.

OK, so it sounds like the scum I was getting is just lead rust. It's very coppery and flakey and gets kind of golden when it cools.

Also it's wrinkled, not frosty, so it sounds like heating my mold up is the thing to do for that. I'll also probably go back and use the off-weight ones I had that were otherwise intact.

EDIT: Where the heck can I find a .577 caliber portable sizing die? All I can find online are ones that need to be strapped to a bench, and which have gaps in the sizes they come from from .53 caliber to the .67 caliber range. I know Pedersoli makes them, but I'd have an easier time finding an illegal ivory fence than a Pedersoli retailer.

[Tom-ADC]

When I had my Zouve I had a Lyman 575-213 mold that cast a .575 510 grain, pure lead, hollow base bullet, these shot very good in my rifle.

[Mroldfashioned]

Pedersoli Parts

VTI REPLICA GUN PARTS
P.O. Box 509 - 06039 - LAKEVILLE, CT.
Telefono: 001 860 435 8068 Fax: 001 860 435 8146 Email: mail@vtigunparts.com
Web: www.vtigunparts.com


BEAUCHAMP & SON INC., DBA FLINTLOCK'S ETC
160 Rossiter Road - 01254 - RICHMOND, MA.
Telefono: 001 413 698 3822 Fax: 001 413 698 3866 Email: flintetc@berkshire.rr.com
Web: www.flintlocksetc.com


IFG-NA, LLC DBA ITALIAN FIREARMS GROUP
1619 South Kentucky, Suite B-210 - P.O. Box 2726 - 79105 - AMARILLO, TX
Telefono: 1-800-450-1852 / 1-806-398-0777 / 1-806-398-0778 Fax: 1-806-398-0779 Email: Justin@ItalianFirearmsGroup.com
Web: http://www.italianfirearmsgroup.com/pedersoli


between the three, I've been able to get anything I've needed for my Pedersolis.

As far as consistency, I'll usually figure my first 7-10 pours are just heating the mould, I'll usually set those aside to remelt. once you get your pouring down you'll find your weights will be very consistent. (well within a fraction of 1 grain). Everyone else already chimed in on the lead oxide.

[rsrocket1]

If you are using the bottom pour Lee pot, put a layer of sawdust on the lead melt. It will reduce the lead oxide back into metallic lead and form an oxygen free zone on the surface which will prevent more oxidation. If using a dipper, just move the "gold" stuff aside and after a while, drop in a pea sized piece of wax and light it off.

Minie balls are supposed to be a couple mils smaller than the barrel. That way you can easily push the bullet down the bore and when the powder goes off, the skirt expands to grab the rifling. That way you can shoot several shots without cleaning the fouling of BP (at least that was the idea during the Civil War).