Reloading 12 ga for skeet / trap

[davek8s]

I recently jailed a Winchester SXP for skeet and trap and I'm considering wether or not to get into reloading for it. I've been loading pistol and rifle for a little over 6 years now so I'm ok with learning how to load shotgun ammo.

My issue comes down to the cost involved, even though I never look at costs when it comes to reloading center fire ammo. If I buy a box of range ammo at $8 for 25 rounds it comes out to 32 cents a round. That's a high estimate. I know that with rebates you can get AA for a lot less then $8 a box.

When I priced out components I used Bass Pro and rounded up so my calculations would be on the high end. Here's where I'm at:

Wads 3 cents
1 oz lead shot 12 cents
Primers 7 cents
20 gr of powder at $25 per pound 8 cents.
Hulls will be range pick ups for free.

All that comes out to 28 cents a round. That's a lot of work to save 4 cents.

So here's my question. First are my numbers off? Second am I wrong in comparing my reloads to the cheapest "house loads" that the clubs sell? It annoys me when people here compare reloaded 223 to wolf steel case prices. Should I be comparing my reloads to a higher quality ammo?

[sargenv]

My Club sells Winchesters & Federals for $35/1000..

Powder at $25/lb.. you need to buy in larger quantities than a single at a time.. Promo/Red Dot/Green Dot can be had for $151/8# can.. translating to $18.88/lb.

Shot can be had for about $40/bag or less if you shop around.. Reclaimed goes for a bit less.

Wads are about $.03 each.. give/take..

That right there will reduce your costs a bit..
Wads $.03 x 25 = $.75
Primers = $.035 x 25 = $.875
20 gr Powder = $.054 x 25 = $1.35
1 oz Shot = $.10 x 25 = $2.50

Grand total of $5.50/box

Bass Pro has lousy prices.. For now it is best to shop Cabela's while you can. Cabela's sometimes has lead shot on sale.. I just checked, they have free shipping right now for $49 and over.. and Eagle brand Lead shot for $39.99/bag.. order 2 bags, get free shipping.. Easy.

Or you can opt to purchase cheaper shells like Rio's or Herters when Cabela's has a sale with free shipping.. I've gotten 1 1/8 oz - #7.5's for about $54/case. Which is just about what I can load them for. You do not need AA's for informal target shooting.. and it's likely you won't be able to tell the difference for some time anyway.

The #1 reason to reload is to make something that you can't get.. some specific shot size, speed, or weight of shot that you want but is not made.

These days I load steel shot for skeet since my club requires bio-degradable wads and non-toxic shot.. I can make that ammo for about $5.50/box.. which has a lot less felt recoil than the factory Kent's my club sells for $8/box or $75/case.

Where you really start to save is on the smaller gauges.. 20, 28, and 410.. or even 16 gauge where ammo is not always available..

One other thing.. the Range pickup hulls.. A lot of people (including me) thought oh, I'll just load whatever I can find.. I found out the hard way that while you CAN load any hull, if you are loading in volume, you really want to find a lot of something that can be loaded easily. I've loaded all kinds of stuff over the years and did okay with it, but nothing beats the Remington Gun Club or Winchester AA's for loadability. I also like to use the Kent hulls for certain things and they reload okay.. They are a straight wall hull and need different wads than the Wins or Rems. Basically, the same wads you would load Federals with. Some shells lend themselves to be re-used and others you might be able to load, but are a mountain of frustration and you'll wish you never tried. I've thrown away a lot of bad hulls over the years.

[beetle]

hi, i did an overview of shotgun reloading which also includes a discussion of costs.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1216571

[the_tunaman]

Like you, I've been reloading for numerous calibers for quite some time and got in deep.

I've recently been influenced by a neighbor, and succumbed to the allure of trap/sheet/clays. I had never previously shot much in the way of shotgun, save for the occasional trip to the desert.

He has a full setup, and on a trip with him to a supply shop we found a used MEC 9000 in great shape - this shop sells a lot of used presses.

I picked it up, along with a couple of bags of reclaimed shot and a couple of bags of wads, and dove right in.

Start-up costs were minimal, and given the amount of shooting I'm doing it will be well worth it. Besides, I love spending time in the garage reloading - it is therapy.

[sargenv]

I'm not discouraging anyone from doing it.. I load for.. 10, 12, 20, 28, and 410.. I own several presses and have been reloading shotshells for 30 years. Just that to make any of this stuff worth loading, you really need to buy in bulk to get the best prices.. and lowest cost/rd.. but that applies to everything.. One thing to think about is at what volume do you want to load at? I've been pulling on press handles for a long time and I'm thinking about finally upgrading one of my presses to mechanical driven after a loading session made me feel the tendonitis creeping in..

[rsrocket1]

Your problem is that you base your estimates on components from one of the most expensive retailers around.

3/4 oz Reclaimed shot @ $25/bag = $0.047
Primers at $30/k = $0.03
Powder at $150/8# <- and that's pretty high = $0.048
Wads at $12/500 = $0.024
Hulls = free

$0.15/shot = 3.72 box

The shot is the most expensive part and if you can find a good source of reclaimed shot, it will really cut down your costs. I shoot 3/4 oz 12 gauge for skeet and 16 yard trap and find that there is no difference in scores between that and 1-1/8 oz. If you hit the target, you will break it. If your aim is off, a pound of shot won't break the target.

I got a used Mec9000GN and it paid for itself the first year I had it. When shooting trap and skeet, you go through a lot of ammo in a hurry. If you don't shoot that much, then the bargain stuff at Walmart is a much better option.

[sargenv]

Where are you finding reclaimed for $25/bag? Best price I can find is J&S Wholesale and you have to buy $3000 worth to get it at $30.50/bag.

But then I recall buying reclaimed for as little as $40/100#.

$150/8# is likely what most will pay if they get it from Powder Valley, IF they have it in stock.. Sometimes you can find it on sale for a bit less.. if you can get discounted hazmat/shipping, you can get it down to about $120/can.. but most people tend not to buy in full cases when that is the best price break down.

There are other powders out there.. like the Vectan powders that can come in a bit cheaper if you buy a case.. Graf's has a pretty good deal, but you need buy quite a bit of it to make it cheap.. List on those is in the $17/lb range.. Add in shipping/hazmat and it goes up. I remember when Promo was $100/can.. no more..

[davek8s]

Reloading 12 ga for skeet / trap

Thanks guys, I knew I was basing my numbers high. But I like to be realistic about costs.

Costs aside I'll probably get into shot shell loading because I already load all of my other ammo.

I never knew about issues with different hulls and reloading. Right now I have some factory Winchester and fiocchi ammo. I was planning to save the hulls for reloading. Is there a brand of ammo I should buy if I intend to save the hulls?

Also what suppliers should I be looking at for wad and shot?

Last thing is that I'll probably get a Lee load all for a press. Does anyone have experience with this press? Is there something better in that price range?

[Capybara]

As of now, I don't reload shot shells, only brass. A lot of it depends on where you shoot too. I just found out yesterday that Winchester Canyon GC, up in Santa Barbara, where I was considering joining, is going to all steel shot in 2017. So that changes a lot. I agree, cheap WalMart loads will be a better deal for the average clays shooter who might go once a month. But if you become avid and shoot more than once a month or like to take a group of shooters to intro them to the sport, reloading shot shells is beginning to make financial sense. If you need to shoot steel to be compliant at some rages, reloading makes sense.

[beetle]

hulls make a huge difference in reloadability. Winchester AAs are good, but not their "Universal" line. Fiocchi is pretty good, but it is a "straight wall" hull that requires a different wad.

If you are buying new shells for reloadability go with Remington shells -- Gun Club, STS, Nitro, etc.

For Shot the best easily obtainable deal is through Cabelas -- $40, free shipping. Throw some wads into the same order for free shipping.

Load all is a good way to get started.

The key thing to remember is that unlike metallic reloading, you want to follow the recipe exactly. If the recipe calls for a Remington hull, you can't switch to a fiocchi hull. etc.

good luck!

[davek8s]

Here I thought that a hull was a hull...

Maybe I'm starting this all wrong. If any of you were starting out as a new loader what supplies would you buy to get started? Hulls, wads, primers, powder and shot.

Let's assume for now that I want to load something with 1 1/8 or 1 oz of 7.5 or 8 lead shot for trap and skeet.

Once again thanks everyone for the input.

[sargenv]

The Load all is a good in, but if you are serious, you will find it to be really clunky.. I prefer the MEC Sizemaster line since except for volume, I've never grown out of the ones that I have. For high volume I switched up initially to an 8567 Grabber in 12 and then had someone give me 9000's in 12 and 20.

Cabela's for shot and/or wads. Though Gamiliel, Precision, & Graf's are good sources also.

Claybuster wads... these depend on if you have straight wall (Federal, Kent, Fiocchi) or taper wall hulls (Rem Gun Club, STS, Win AA).

For powder/primers, look to one of the area gun clubs that sells components..

Empty shells - Buy a few cases of good stuff and reload your own or see if you can find someone/somewhere that allows you to pick them up.

[beetle]

Here is what I recommend to get started:

From Cabelas (take advantage of their free shipping offer on expensive to ship things like lead shot and wads which are bulky).

2 X 25lbs of Eagle Shot @ $39.99 each.
2 X Claybusters CB1100-12 Wads (500 per bag) @ $11.99 each.
Lee Load All

From Powder Valley (combining hazmat fees into one order)
1000 pieces of Winchester 209 primers
4 lbs of Hodgdon 700-X

These components are amongst the most common so there are a LOT of recipes out there. The Claybusters is a Winchester clone (use data for WAA12SL). Note that the CB1100-12 is for one oz loads. If you want to make 1 1/8 oz loads order the CB1118-12 instead.

Read my post about shotshell reloading to understand why components matter. You need to make sure that the stack height is right to get a good crimp. On page two there are examples of shells where the stack height is not right.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1216571

Also the Lee Load all is a cheap way to get your feet wet. I have a friend that only shoots 2-3 boxes a week and he is perfectly content to use the Lee Load All. However if you start to reload any more volume than that you will probably move into a better press.

[davek8s]

Thanks beetle, I'll check out the link.

[croue]

I'm planning on starting up again with shotshells. Picking up Lymans shotshell book for a refresher. Never too old to learn or relearn!

C