243 Ladder Test

[smoothie25]

Did a ladder Test with 70gr varmageddon and H4350 today. Started at book min of 42gr and went up .3 increments to 47gr. Didn't see any pressure signs with my last shot but not comfortable going more than a grain higher than book max. Test was done at 350 yards and had a 5-7mph wind from my 4oclock. Let me know how you guys interpret this. Also curious what everyone's next step after doing a ladder Test? Should I run another test to confirm or move on with fine tuning powder charge within a node? Thanks




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[Whiterabbit]

Looks like 9-10-11-12-13 and 16-17-18 to me

Next step for me is oal. @ 11 and 17, at least 3x lengths, you can shoot for chrono or groups or both. Last, take the best oal (extrapolated) and shoot 10,12, and 16,18 to see if the top or bottom of the node groups best.

[drdarrin@sbcglobal.net]

Sorry but that looks like a waste of time and money to me. The point of a ladder test is to see what your groups look like with as few other variables as possible. 350 yards with a crosswind? That's hard enough with a proven load. Try it again at 100 yards.


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[smoothie25]

Decided to do what rabbit mentioned and loaded 4 each at 4 different OALs at charge 17. Hoping to shoot in the morning. More to come...


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[bigdawg86]

I am asking from ignorance, but how the heck would you be able to interpret this? What are you looking for in the scatter?

[RandyD]

A crosswind will adversely affect the elevation of a bullet. I would try the test again when a crosswind is not present.

[craneman]

Did you take just 1 shot with each different load that were .3 grains apart?

I was taught to take a minimum of 3 shots, but preferably 5, in each individual loading. This was from a very accomplished shooter/competitor. Otherwise there is no way to judge consistency of that particular loading. Consistency shot to shot is what you are looking for. Then once you find the most accurate and consistent node you can fine tune from there. and yea, 100 yards with no wind will give you better results, and easier to decipher the data.

Or maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to do.

[Top Cat]

At 350 yards if your groups are not under 3" at that range then there may be problems with your rifle that are not ammo related.

Perhaps there is a problem with bedding, the action not seating properly, scope rings or the scope itself, the bore not clean and dry with no oil residue, etc...there are many potential firearm related issues that can cause poor accuracy.

Also, I only test loads on a calm day.

[Jjwisled]

+1 for 3-5 shot groups at 100 yards. Once you get this load figured out and you want another recipe to try let me know. I've got a few for 243. Nothing fancy, they are out of the Lee manual but work great in my old Mauser Sporter.

[LynnJr]

16 17 and 18 is your best bet from that target.
Now play with the seating depth to fine tune your load.

Guys the purpose of a ladder or Audette test is to find the area of least vertical stringing.
Take a straight edge and run it side to side across each bullet impact. In this example around 18 lines.
The horizontal doesn't matter only the vertical!!!!!!!!!!
The horizontal is the Shooter/wind/equipment.
Barrels whip up and down and we ignore the rest.

[longrange1]

IMHO ladder tests are better suited for BR and F-class shooters with higher end equipment and a good knowledge of their equipment and loads.

there are much better,faster and easier ways for an average shooter with an average rifle to find a good load...heres two of those ways...

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/ocw-instructions/4529817134

i like the OCW test but prefer this one more because its simpler to understand,faster to do and you pretty much confirm your load at the time of the test...i dont shoot VLD type bullets because they are a PITA and i dont seat bullets touching or jammed any more...you can use this method just adjust your charge weights accordingly.
i always load 1 extra round of each charge weight and shoot them over the chrony before i start my test that way i have an idea of where my velocities are...

http://www.texasprc.club/preidloaddev/

[Whiterabbit]

Thank you Lynn. I was about to say that 90% of the ladder/OCW test results people post on this site are 3-5 shot strongs at 100 yards. And what do calgunners say?

"throw the data away and do a proper ladder at 300-400 yards where you can see differentiation in your group"

no surprises we see the same response in reverse when someone actually follows through! Ha!

OP, FYI for my load development 4 MOA isn't far off my crap loads. That includes those within OCW but way out of the ideal OAL. And 4 MOA is about what I see in vertical on your ladder. Seems to me you are perfectly on the right track.

Just keep in mind, if you have trouble down the line, that your initial screening data is based on a sample size of one for each shot. This is perfectly suitable if every shot is "good data". if you are confident in that, then I'm confident in my opinion in post #2. If the later data makes no sense, then it's possible you have a flyer in this test that is leading you down the wrong path.

Just something to keep in mind.

[waveslayer]

Sorry but that looks like a waste of time and money to me. The point of a ladder test is to see what your groups look like with as few other variables as possible. 350 yards with a crosswind? That's hard enough with a proven load. Try it again at 100 yards.


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Ladders start at 300, round 2 is at 400, and so on. Ladder test test the nodes and then you fine tune from there.

Horizontal stringing is ignored on a ladder my friend

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

[smoothie25]

Finally got a chance to shoot a seating depth test at load 17 (46.8gr). The results were disappointing to say the least. Shots were made at 100yards and no wind off a bipod and rear bag. I felt pretty steady on all the shots. Waited several minutes between shots, it was 25 outside that day so barrel never got warm.

Oddly enough, I noticed a couple cases that looked to have some ejector marks and case swipe. Marks were pretty subtle but I'm concerned that pressure might be dangerous if I shoot this round in warmer weather. The streaks that run through the WIN were there before I shot. The swipe that I'm referring to is between the W and 2 on both cases. Let me know what you guys think.

I'm thinking of running a seating depth test at load 7 (43.6gr) and see how it goes.




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[Whiterabbit]

Don't get hung up on group size. Just the way you were shooting that day. You still pick the best and move on. Be realistic, remember that the cloverleaf groups on calguns are "calguns targets" not real targets. Noone here will post those day in, day out, with exception of a small minority with very fine rifles.

However, all your groups are essentially the same size. Meaning you are not sensitive to OAL in this load. Unless you were truly throwing them all over the place.

I would be interested in chrono data for that target, did you collect any?

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Wouldn't hurt to try the other load to see where you are at.

But if anything, the above target is a very good sign that you are not sensitive to OAL. That means you've got a wide margin for loading. I think it's worth taking the rifle out with this load a couple more times just to see if it was your shooting that day or not. You might find that you have quite a robust load.