Reloading differences for plated bullets

[sbsyncro]

Looking through loading data, I often see separate data listed for plated bullets, but not always. There are some interesting differences that I'm trying to understand.



For example, Berry's says the max MV for their 9mm 124g round nose bullet is 1,250 fps.



OK, so I bust open one of my reloading manuals (Modern Reloading) and for 124 gr *jacketed* bullet and HP-38, it lists a min load/MV of 3.9/920 and max load/MV of 4.4/1,037 (both well within the 1,250 fps limit stipulated by Berry's). It also says a min OAL of 1.150



Now if I drop down the page to "124 Grain Copper Plated" there is no load data listed for either HP-38 or W231. Hmm... (why?)



So I go back up and check to see if there is a common powder for both bullet types so I can compare the load data and find v-N350 (which I don't possess and have never used)



For the jacketed bullet it lists a max load of 5.7 grains and 1,237 fps muzzle velocity (still within the Berry's limit) with a min OAL of 1.142 but the max load for the "plated" bullet is 5.9 grains of v-N350 and a MV of 1,196. The min OAL is the same.



Some questions:



1. Why is HP-38/W231 not listed for copper plated bullets?



2. I'm assuming the min OAL has to do with the physical dimensions of the powder grains and how much volume they take up, so the different min OAL ensures that the load is not over compressed when using different powders



3. Why is the mv on the plated bullet less than the jacketed bullet, yet the powder charge higher? (are copper plated bullets somehow more "slippery" than plated ones?)



Thanks - I've reloaded before, but never paid this much attention to all the data (I was younger and had a shorter attention span, I guess). Its interesting to try to figure this stuff out.

[tvfreakarms]

Following

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

['ol shooter]

I load plated at the same powder charges as cast lead. Some profiles are not the same as cast lead, most are closer to FMJ in .45 acp, 9mm, and .40, so pay attention when considering case O.A.L.. 231 would be fine for them, I use Titegroup and CFE Pistol with them. Might try 231 one of these days, lot's of loaders like it.

[sbsyncro]

Thanks. According to Berry's web site using load data for jacketed rounds will yield 5-8% higher MV.

[tonyjr]

The copper on plated bullets is softer . Mv to high and bullet CAN fly apart .
I won't use coated or plated in my Magnums .
Since I only use Hodgdon powers [ CFE CFE pistol , HP 38 , H110 and HS 6 ]
While I have other powders [ 6 nephews and 2 nieces - this is the same as *** powder - they have since learned ] I only use in the 25 and 32 acp reloads . I won't even use in the 380 acp or 9 mm . Another 100 to 200 rounds and that powder will be gone .
Another thing is lead weights more than copper . A plated bullet has less copper than a jacketed one . The same weight bullet in plated needs to be longer just to make at same weight [ IE more lead means more weight or fatter / longer ]
Thinner copper also means that the bullet can deform in barrel - lead is softer than copper .
If you are going to use plated bullets , I would suggest using CFE powder - it has " stuff " in it to help clean copper out of barrel - I don't think it helps in gas ports on autos thou .

[sbsyncro]

The copper on plated bullets is softer . Mv to high and bullet CAN fly apart . I won't use coated or plated in my Magnums.

Check. Same here.

Since I only use Hodgdon powers [ CFE CFE pistol , HP 38 , H110 and HS 6 ]
While I have other powders [ 6 nephews and 2 nieces - this is the same as *** powder - they have since learned ] I only use in the 25 and 32 acp reloads . I won't even use in the 380 acp or 9 mm . Another 100 to 200 rounds and that powder will be gone .

Another thing is lead weights more than copper . A plated bullet has less copper than a jacketed one . The same weight bullet in plated needs to be longer just to make at same weight [ IE more lead means more weight or fatter / longer ]

Yes agreed - I find this when I'm loading Barnes TTSX or Hornady GMX bullets for hunting. However, with plated bullets, I would think there is less copper than in a jacketed bullet (since the plating is only only ~0.005" thick) and therefore more lead, so the overall dimensions might be a skosh smaller, I would think since it is more dense. (?)

Thinner copper also means that the bullet can deform in barrel - lead is softer than copper .
If you are going to use plated bullets , I would suggest using CFE powder - it has " stuff " in it to help clean copper out of barrel - I don't think it helps in gas ports on autos thou .

This totally makes sense - but would deformation mean a better seal and therefore higher pressure? (this is not indicated by the load data I have - assuming it is accurate).

Thanks again for the thoughtful response - more good data to chew on.

[wbunning]

I use a ton of plated bullets in 9mm, 38, .40, .44 and .45., though mostly in the first 3. I use Titegroup or 231 in those, and Unique and BE-86 in others. There isn't much listed for BE-86 so I have to figure out a lot of those loads myself. I've been using Xtreme for copper plated the last 2 years. Their website says load up to halfway between lead and jacketed, but don't exceed 1200 ft/sec. My loads don't get very close to 1200 fps. I check new loads for plating separation by shooting at paper close up and looking for indications like smaller holes away from the primary bullet hole. Never found any yet.

As far as why there isn't load data for them in the manuals.. I suppose that is simply because there are so many powders and bullets, they can't possibly show every combination.

I have a chrono now, and enjoy working up my own loads. I highly recommed acquiring a chrono if you like to handload. I adds a whole new dimension to the hobby.

[Carcassonne]

...



Some questions:



1. Why is HP-38/W231 not listed for copper plated bullets?



2. I'm assuming the min OAL has to do with the physical dimensions of the powder grains and how much volume they take up, so the different min OAL ensures that the load is not over compressed when using different powders



3. Why is the mv on the plated bullet less than the jacketed bullet, yet the powder charge higher? (are copper plated bullets somehow more "slippery" than plated ones?)



Thanks - I've reloaded before, but never paid this much attention to all the data (I was younger and had a shorter attention span, I guess). Its interesting to try to figure this stuff out.

Some W.A.G.s.

1) The pressure spike may be too fast: The pressure builds too quickly. The soft lead under the plating may deform to easily with faster burning powder.

2) Minimum OAL is not necessarily to prevent powder compression. If you lower the volume of the cartridge by making the OAL shorter than what is recommended/listed, you will significantly raise the internal pressure, and your gun may KaBoom.

3) I think it is because the higher velocities will cause increased friction which will cause the light plating to wear off and deposit on the inside of the barrel effecting accuracy. Some thicker plated bullets can be run at higher velocities. Maybe the heavier plating will absorb more heat from friction cause by higher velocities, and prevent fouling.

I could also be something to do with how much pressure/obturation the bullet can handle. It might be easier, or less confusing to the ordinary person, for the manufacturer to just put a maximum velocity on the bullet than a maximum pressure. It could also be both obturation and friction from higher velocities.




.

[tonyjr]

A chrono is almost worthless . I go to 3 in door ranges and none allow them .
May be 20 tears ago , you could rent one , but the traders when out of business - sort of - all they can sell is pellet stuff . I worked up my hunting loads for the 270 , 30 carbine and 45 [ later the 50 AE ]
5 or 6 years ago my knees were so bad I was on a walker or crutches - no more hunting [ now both are replaced ]
I tried both plated and coated - plated left to much copper in barrel and coat , you could see the colored mist from the 44 and 50 .
Even thou I only shoot at paper now , I can afford the little extra and my time is better spent reloading than cleaning out copper or the stuff they coat the bullets with .

[wbunning]

A chrono is almost worthless . I go to 3 in door ranges and none allow them .

Many indoor ranges allow units such as LabRadar and Magnetospeed since you don't have to set them up downrange.

[huckberry668]

Reloading manual lists minimum and maximum charges within acceptable precision. Maybe this particular author didn't find the powder good for that particular lot of plated bullet.

Plated bullets have much thinner jacket but the 'soft' swaged lead core is what makes it soft. Hard cast & swaged bullets differences are antimony, tin as part of the alloy. Swaged bullets is soft enough (BH 5 to 8) that you can cut with your nail. Can't do that with hardcast (BH 15 to 21).

[zvardan]

I don't think the copper is softer, it's just thinner compared to a jacketed bullet. Thats why you load only low to medium jacketed velocities.

[tonyjr]

Take a plated one and a jacketed one - see which scratches the other

[robert101]

See post #7, I agree. I don't shoot my plated bullets over about 1,200 fps. Other than that I just load and shoot as usual.

[rdfact]

I have used XTreme plated in my 30 carbine loads. Hodgdon's site shows a starting load of 14 grains of Winchester 296 has a velocity of 2,006 fps. I tried that load with plated bullets and had good results and no signs of the plating coming off. I don't have a chronograph so don't know what fps I was getting but I would think it was north of the max 1500fps that Xtreme recommends.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle