Another "FL Resize/Neck Resize" question (with a different twist)

[sbsyncro]

I'm just getting back into reloading after a LONG hiatus, and I'm reading a lot on this topic, since I want to buy good brass and then get as much use out of it as possible. I have a 4-die set for .308 and will be using a mix of new brass, range pick-up, and once-fired from the gun for which I'm reloading (Ruger GSR).

My understanding is that neck-sizing will prolong the life of the brass, but can only be done on brass that is either new or fire-formed in the gun for which I'm reloading.

My question: if I have range pick-up or other random once-fired brass, can I do a FL resize, then use it in the GSR and from that point forward treat it as if it is fire-formed? (e.g. neck size thereafter until the shoulders creep up).

One of my biggest challenges is that I'm jumping back into this head-first and planning to load for a wide variety of both rifle and pistols, including some obscure calibers (like Swedish Mauser and Arisaka). Needless to say my head is SWIMMING with all the information and trying to find best sources for materials and trying to prioritize my spending.

Thanks in advance,

Brent

[Divernhunter]

Yes you can. The brass(even new) must be fired in the firearm before neck resizing for that firearm.
So FL resize the range pick up or any brass not fired in the firearm in question. Then load and fire it. Then you can neck size it for that firearm.
Also remember if you neck size it may not chamber in a different firearm. For ammo used in more than one firearm it is best to separate by firearm of just FL resize so it will fit them all. Also best not to neck size ammo used in semi-auto firearms.
Any ammo you fire in your rifle WILL be fire formed at that point for that rifle.

Not sure where you live but if it is near me, the Modesto area in the central valley, I will be glad to help you out. Just PM me

[huckberry668]

brass life is extended thru 'not over work' the brass. You will almost definitely over work the brass if you size according to the written instructions.

I've tried them all. Now I full length size to a minimum. For half MOA capable rifles of mine, there is no precision difference between neck sized and my full length sized ammo. BUT reliability improvement of the full length sized ammo is 100% both in bolts and autoloaders.

Get yourself a set of Hornady comparators and start measuring. Adjust your sizing die so you're full length sizing the brass but only 'bump' the shoulders by .001" to .002" below your chamber. This way you'll get the best of both worlds.

Neck sizing only 'will' create reliability problems after a few loadings. Not all chambers are perfectly round and brass do grow. You'll have feeding problems at least. I've had a few hard to chamber rounds that caused unexplained fliers which defeats the purpose of neck sizing.

Take the brass fired from this rifle of yours.

1. Remove the primer by a 1/16" pin punch or decapping pin. Sometimes the primer protrudes after firing and it'll mess up the true measurements.

2. Use the comparator set and measure from the base to the datum line or shoulder. Do this on several brass of the same make to get your average. This is the 'average' measurement of your chamber.

3. Adjust your die so it sizes the 'same' brass to .001" to .002" under the 'average'.

Also, range brass of different makes and chambers won't size exactly the same with the same die setting. Metal springs, brass will bounce back after sizing. So separate your brass at least by head-stamp, adjust the die if the original setting doesn't size properly.

I loved 6.5 Swedish Mauser, I have 2 of them. Now I favor 260Rem instead since it's a short action round and can be loaded up or down to suite my needs.

Good luck.

[sbsyncro]

Yes you can. The brass(even new) must be fired in the firearm before neck resizing for that firearm.
So FL resize the range pick up or any brass not fired in the firearm in question. Then load and fire it. Then you can neck size it for that firearm.
Also remember if you neck size it may not chamber in a different firearm. For ammo used in more than one firearm it is best to separate by firearm of just FL resize so it will fit them all. Also best not to neck size ammo used in semi-auto firearms.
Any ammo you fire in your rifle WILL be fire formed at that point for that rifle.

Not sure where you live but if it is near me, the Modesto area in the central valley, I will be glad to help you out. Just PM me

Thanks for the info and the offer of help. I'm actually down south in the Santa Barbara area. By your handle, are you by chance also a spearfisherman?

[milotrain]

If it's range pickup you need to size enough to make sure it runs in your chamber. Once it's formed to your rifle's chamber you can size it lightly but I still prefer a FL sizing over a neck sizing.

[Dave626]

fire form your brass on your Rifle. Measure headspace. FL size it down 0.002"

my fired brass from my bolt measure 1.623"

my fired brass from Semi measure 1.627"


if i just necksize Semi brass and expect to shoot on my bolt, it might not able to chamber it.

u need to know your chamber headspace. GET TOOL to measure your brass headspace (no, i'm not yelling. lol)

[sbsyncro]

Thanks, gents.

A related question - I see a lot of references like "adjusting the die so it sizes to 0.001" to 0.002" under" etc. I'm using a 4-die Lee set on a LCT - is this adjustment determined by how far down the die is screwed onto the turret? And is this what the "tool" allows me to measure somehow? (as opposed to a before-and-after measurement of the case with a bit of trial and error). I thought a headspace gauge was something you dropped into the action of a rifle to determine Go/no-go/Field dimensions for a particular rifle...

Right now I just follow the instructions: "raise the ram, drop the die until it touches the ram (I'm assuming this means WITH the shell holder), then tighten an additional 1/4 to 1/3 turn."

[pacrat]

OP said,

Right now I just follow the instructions: "raise the ram, drop the die until it touches the ram (I'm assuming this means WITH the shell holder), then tighten an additional 1/4 to 1/3 turn."

That method "Full Lenght" sizes the case and will usually bring cases back to SAAMI specs. So they will chamber and fire in all factory chambers of that caliber.

Every reloader or handloader. There is a difference. Has different methodologies to accomplish their specific goal for the ammo they load.

My own procedures with either new, used, or pickup bottle neck rifle brass. Is to first clean it as needed.

Then 'CHAMBER CHECK" it in the firearm it will be loaded for.

[1]...If it already fits your chamber. There is no need to FL size it before you load and fireform the first time. Only serves to overwork the brass to begin with.

If it fits,... neck size,... load,... fire. And proceed from there with your fireformed cases.

[2]...If it doesn't fit. Then FL size it and proceed from that point.

JM2c.........others have varying procedural differences. Pick the procedural opinions that you feel best suit your circumstances and goals.

Load safe, have fun

[huckberry668]

Thanks, gents.

A related question - I see a lot of references like "adjusting the die so it sizes to 0.001" to 0.002" under" etc. I'm using a 4-die Lee set on a LCT - is this adjustment determined by how far down the die is screwed onto the turret? And is this what the "tool" allows me to measure somehow? (as opposed to a before-and-after measurement of the case with a bit of trial and error). I thought a headspace gauge was something you dropped into the action of a rifle to determine Go/no-go/Field dimensions for a particular rifle...

Right now I just follow the instructions: "raise the ram, drop the die until it touches the ram (I'm assuming this means WITH the shell holder), then tighten an additional 1/4 to 1/3 turn."

Yes, it is how far down the die is screwed into the press. Once you have your headspace gauge in hand. Screw the sizing die down touching the shell holder with the ram all the way up. Back die out about half a turn then lock the die down temporarily. Lube, size, measure, adjust the die down 1/16" of a turn which gives you about .0045" adjustment at a time. Repeat till you get to the desired shoulder 'bump'. Make sure you run a few more brass thru it to fine tune it. The same brass for adjustment sometimes won't give you the final setting because it's been sized several times to get there.

For general purpose rounds for auto loaders, I set the sizing die to .001" to .002" under the 'Go Gauge' so I know they'll fit any chamber. I only custom size for long range precision rounds for chambers that are not exactly 'Go Gauge'.

The Hornady comparator gauges measures the brass from shoulder to head. You don't need to buy the whole set. I only have a .400" headspace gauge insert. It works on 308, 260, 6.5x55, 30-06, 300WinMag..... basically anything thats measures under .4". I use the 30cal bullet comparator as the headspace gauge for .223/556 or other .224 rounds.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator

http://brtshooterssupply.com.au/products/hornady-locknload-headspace-gauge-kit.html

This set measures from the bullet ogive to the case head so you can seat bullets exact from lands. I have a full set of this.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/231904/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-comparator-basic-set-with-6-inserts

[fguffey]

My understanding is that neck-sizing will prolong the life of the brass, but can only be done on brass that is either new or fire-formed in the gun for which I'm reloading.

My question: if I have range pick-up or other random once-fired brass, can I do a FL resize, then use it in the GSR and from that point forward treat it as if it is fire-formed? (e.g. neck size thereafter until the shoulders creep up).



Thanks in advance,

Brent

Methods and techniques: I measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face first. After I measure the chamber length I size the cases by adjusting the die to, or off or below contact with the top pf the shell holder. It matters not if the rifle is a Mauser or Winchester, same for the cases with an exception, I believe it is a bad habit to work fired cases that have a resistance to sizing. There are times the case has more resistance to sizing than the press I am using to overcome.

F. Guffey

[sbsyncro]

Wow. Lots of good info - thank you everyone. This will take me a while to read through several times and digest fully.

The level of precision with which some of you guys go about this is really impressive.

I'm also learning that there are more gadgets and bits and bobs to this hobby of reloading than there are for flyfishing!

[pacrat]

I'm also learning that there are more gadgets and bits and bobs to this hobby of reloading than there are for flyfishing!

You will also find as experience builds. That most of those gadgets, bits, bobs, whatnots, and dodads. Are meant to catch reloaders wallets.

Just like the fishing gear is designed and marketed to catch wallets not fish.




Just curious, which 4 die set for .308 did you get? And what is included?

[huckberry668]

You'd at least get a fish or 2 once in a while from fly fishing. Shooting is making money disappear 3 times speed of sound out of your wallet... But most of you gadgets you only buy once and they'll last practically forever. The real cost is the components. I started out with the basic reloading set but over time found besides cost savings there was not much in terms of real custom ammo. Then I learned about brass life, 1/2 MOA groups, run-out, single digit SD/ES and the benefit to long range shooting. That's when the real fun began.

Lee Ultimate set probably. Full length Sizer, collet neck sizer, seater and factory crimp. Don't use the factory crimp die unless the bullet has cannelure... and even then it's not necessary. Crimped rifle rounds does nothing to increase precision, velocity consistency or run-out. If you find your seating depth varies a few thousandths, remove the seating adjuster cap and look inside for a nipple left from machining. Removing it will make your seating depth dead on every round.

[sbsyncro]

Just curious, which 4 die set for .308 did you get? And what is included?

Yes, the Lee Ultimate.

[sbsyncro]

Don't use the factory crimp die unless the bullet has cannelure... and even then it's not necessary. Crimped rifle rounds does nothing to increase precision, velocity consistency or run-out. If you find your seating depth varies a few thousandths, remove the seating adjuster cap and look inside for a nipple left from machining. Removing it will make your seating depth dead on every round.

So the bullet seating die alone created enough neck tension to secure the bullet? What about in a lever gun or semi-auto where the rounds are banged around a lot more...?