Rio .410 blow

[h.charlie]

So took a box of Rio 410 shottshells to the range and it looks like instead of the crimp opening it just blew off I stopped shooting them in the middle of my set when I noticed a change in action while cycling the pump and looked at the hull to find this, anyone know what could cause this?

[CSACANNONEER]

Tagged

[pacrat]

Doesn't look "Blown Off".

Looks melted off. I've had similar results back when Rem first started making plastic hulls in the 1960s. But that was with reloads using large doses of slow powder, with heavy shot charges.

Safe to shoot?..... Yes, that is happening after the shot charge and wad cup is gone down the barrel.

Looks like "planned obsolescence". They don't want anyone reloading their hulls. They want you to buy new.


JM2c

[HighWildFree]

Thanks for the heads up. Won't be trying Rio anytime soon.

[h.charlie]

So this is why I think there blown off , this one is half opened, and the primer cratered and blew out as well, I like the heat idea as I was already a box deep of winchester loads, but why would all the Rio have different sized cratering on the primers the first pic is of the fired Rio next to a new Rio shotshell, the second pic is of a fired winchester hull next with th Rio shotshell with a blown out primer would the heat cause this by sealing the crimp shut? And notice the rugged starts at the start of the crimp

[h.charlie]

Im just starting to reload 12g so I have almost zero experience with shotshells, and hull condition's heres a pic of the only shotshells that fully opened its crimp it is lightly singed on a few folds, sorry I'm dragging this on cause I'm wondering if the huge variation in the condition of damage is cause of poor powder charge, and or shot, I just notice some of the Un fired Rio shells have dimples from the shot in the hulls. I'll try and cut a few open in the next couple of days

[Cheep]

Is it possible that these shells are a little too long? The crimp being sheared off from the wad column? Stand one of the unfired Rio shells next to a Winchester shell for comparison.

[CSACANNONEER]

Is it possible that these shells are a little too long? The crimp being sheared off from the wad column? Stand one of the unfired Rio shells next to a Winchester shell for comparison.

Interesting idea. I've never shot 3" shells from a 2 1/2" chamber. I wonder what would happen?

[pacrat]

So this is why I think there blown off , this one is half opened, and the primer cratered and blew out as well, I like the heat idea as I was already a box deep of winchester loads, but why would all the Rio have different sized cratering on the primers the first pic is of the fired Rio next to a new Rio shotshell, the second pic is of a fired winchester hull next with th Rio shotshell with a blown out primer would the heat cause this by sealing the crimp shut? And notice the rugged starts at the start of the crimp

Proper "terminology" describing a problem is important to keep things correctly objective.

The primer in your pic is cratered but NOT blown out. That is two very significantly different things.

The difference in the two primer conditions could be attributed to simply being different primers/loads. The RIO's having a softer cup metallurgy than the Win. With a likely hotter powder charge. One thing that is readily notable in the primer pic. Is that your FP hole in the breech face is larger than most would consider acceptable. Which will contribute to cratering. Especially with hotter loads.

As to the heat generated by a hotter load "sealing the crimp shut". That would be a NO. The heat generated during firing is "behind" the shot charge and wad cup, which has already opened the crimp completely before the "plasma" [hot gases] from the powder igniting, gets to the leade of the chamber.

The "short chamber" question may have merit. That would cause the cup and shot to "pause" slightly as it fully opens the crimp allowing more of the powder to burn in the chamber, rather than in the barrel. Increasing the heat/pressure in the throat of the chamber.

The heat generated by burning gunpowder reaches approx. 3,000 degrees farenhiet. But it happens in a tiny part of a second. So anything that slows that process, causes more of that heat to be assimilated by the case.

As CSA mentioned: some older shotguns had 2 1/2" chambers. What type and age pump are you using?

IMHO, I don't think that is the issue, or it would have similar results with the Win. ammo.

JM2c

[John Joseph]

Interesting idea. I've never shot 3" shells from a 2 1/2" chamber. I wonder what would happen?

Pressure. Way too much pressure.

[Pardini]

I wonder if the wad is not sealing against the hull and the hot gasses are blowing past the shot column, melting the hull. Cut a round open and inspect it.

[Revoman]

Are you sure that you barrel/throat is clear?

[h.charlie]

Yes the barrel is clear, shot different shells after without problem, and yes it is chambered in 3" .410 at least for the last 40+ years, can't remember haha. As for the blown primer sorry ment to say punctured if you look in the center you will see a small hole and gsr, not much gsr but it's there and not all the primers punctured and not all are as bad there speratic. I should just take apart a couple shells to see if there is a variance. That was a good idea about the over all length of the shell

[edgerly779]

Looks like 3" in a 2 3/4" chamber. Measure the unfired shells. I have not seen that in long time. The shells say 2.75 but measure anyway.

[Cheep]

How about a picture of the UNFIRED Rio standing next to a Winchester??