OCW Inconclusive?

[kleezmaa]

Hi guys, long time lurker, finally decided to post.

I've got a new gun that I'm loading for, a Savage 16 in 308. I have a hunt coming up and I'm in a big hurry to finish my OCW tests and find a decent round to take up with me next week to the Sierras. My timing got a bit screwed... so now I'm in a rush.

I settled on Varget in hopes that it will vary less with the temperature differences between where I'm load testing (100+ degrees) vs where I'll be shooting (~30 degrees). I'm using Barnes TTSX 168 gr. bullets, full sized/trimmed to 2.005" LC brass, WLR, bullets seated .020" from jam length.

Below you'll find my test results I shot today. It's hard to read so I color coded it... just to give you an idea the boxes above the bullseyes are 1" squares. I can't tell if my gun is crap or something's wrong with my reloads. I've shot 1/2 MOA groups with other guns so I really don't think it's my shooting. They seem to be all over the map and I can't read the results. I mean, it looks like 44.9 and 45.2 (45 is max listed load) look the best out of the lot but still pretty damn terrible.

Could it be that the COAL is way too long? Do you guys have any ideas? I'm kinda in a bind trying to finish my load tests with one or two more range trips because I'm running out of time. I'm hoping I don't have to redo this part of the test again. What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance.

['ol shooter]

Being pressed for time is no way to prepare for a hunt. Buy a couple boxes of factory ammo and sight your rifle in. Happy hunting, hope you score a big one.

[croue]

Being pressed for time is no way to prepare for a hunt. Buy a couple boxes of factory ammo and sight your rifle in. Happy hunting, hope you score a big one.

^^^^^This.

Then come back and figure out what is wrong. For hunting, I don't think I'd be trying to set the bullet to the lands, just a middle COL. You shouldn't need that last little bit of possible accuracy and you'd hate to have barely seated bullets open up on you in the field.

Regardless, something seems way off. Are you sure your scope is tight or that you're not the issue? When you shot 1/2 MOA it might have been in a small bore bolt rifle possibly? 308's can tend to give you a bit more flinch.

C

[croue]

I wish my shotgun patterned like that!
Just kidding. But yeah, it's very hard to read.

[eric n]

How did you determine jam length? What do you consider jam?
You may be right at the lands, start loading them incrementally deeper and they will more then likely tighten up. Barnes recommends starting .050 off the lands.
Your vertical is good enough to hunt with at 44.6-45.2. 44.9 would be a good starting point.

[bigbossman]

You are using TTSX bullets, which are copper. They like to be at least .050 off the lands (per the manufacturer's spec), and preferably more. Seat them deeper, to the last ring/groove on the bullet and try again. Those "groups" are indeed hard to read, but the gray and pink ones look promising and (IMO) are "good to go" for hunting.... these bullets perform best towards max loads, but you still need to work up and look for pressure signs.

[bigdawg86]

My first question is what optic are you using? That looks like iron sight status.

[kleezmaa]

Thanks for ask the replies guys, much appreciated.

My optics are Vortex diamondback 4-12x45 I believe. It's better than the Nikon that comes with the Savage. It's loctited and I've checked, still secure after my shooting.

I have a big suspicion it's the COL but pretty much all of my loads were compressed so I didn't want to start off by jamming them in too much.

For jam length I took a bullet, seated it in an empty case just barely and forced my bolt closed on it a few times until it went in as far as it would. I then backed off .020".

My shots do look like they're from iron sights... I know. I'm pretty convinced it's not my shooting though. That said I'd feel a lot better knowing it was a crappy optic than a bad gun.

[bigdawg86]

Thanks for ask the replies guys, much appreciated.

My optics are Vortex diamondback 4-12x45 I believe. It's better than the Nikon that comes with the Savage. It's loctited and I've checked, still secure after my shooting.

I have a big suspicion it's the COL but pretty much all of my loads were compressed so I didn't want to start off by jamming them in too much.

For jam length I took a bullet, seated it in an empty case just barely and forced my bolt closed on it a few times until it went in as far as it would. I then backed off .020".

My shots do look like they're from iron sights... I know. I'm pretty convinced it's not my shooting though. That said I'd feel a lot better knowing it was a crappy optic than a bad gun.

Even if it was the COAL (unlikely), I think the more precise way of checking that is getting the Hornday OAL gauge and a modified case, that way you can feel when the bullet hits the lands instead of closing the bolt and crossing your fingers. Also getting some factory ammo and checking the groups would be a good idea. As far as the optic goes, is your parralax set correctly? Are you at MAX power to try and get tightest groups?

[Bill Steele]

For hunting, my COAL concern is about magazine feed, not tightening groups, but I have never loaded the all copper bullets, so it could be a lot different.

I agree with the advice to buy quality commercial ammo, get it sighted and call it good until hunting season is over. You will have something to look forward to when things get boring.

[kleezmaa]

Even if it was the COAL (unlikely), I think the more precise way of checking that is getting the Hornday OAL gauge and a modified case, that way you can feel when the bullet hits the lands instead of closing the bolt and crossing your fingers. Also getting some factory ammo and checking the groups would be a good idea. As far as the optic goes, is your parralax set correctly? Are you at MAX power to try and get tightest groups?

My parralax is fixed and I'm at max power, 12x. 100 yards. I do have to try factory ammo, probably will this weekend with my load development.

[kleezmaa]

I've loaded a LOT of different calibers with Barnes since 2008, none of them including my Mini-30 looked that bad. Barnes like to be loaded fast and WELL off the lands, the latter is described by their load data. I use Varget for 308 Win and 8mm Mauser, but for the 308 I went with 150 gr bullets. Figure the Barnes are long for weight, and the 165/168's are really better suited to 30-06 or 300 WM. There's nothing that lighter bullet weight won't kill with the TSX/TTSX, they're VERY effective.

FINALLY - you are over the load data published by Barnes for Varget, please don't use load data for lead bullets with Barnes copper bullets.
http://barnesbullets.com/files/2014/...erV6ForWeb.pdf

To be honest, I bought the 168s for my 30-06. I got under 1/2 inch groups with JHP 168gr but the gun had like one failure to fire every 10ish rounds and for a hunting gun, I couldn't trust it. It even went back to the factory under warranty, came back same issue even with factory ammo so I sold the thing and got the 308. I rather make use of the 70 odd 168 gr Barnes I have left. I'm also going to be in for bear and trust the 168 gr over the 150 in terms of getting cleaner kills on larger game.

All that said, the OCW recommended going above max if pressure signs weren't present so I went for it and it seemed fine to me though I got pretty high velocities, 2775 fps. It shot best over 44.5 gr (if my "groups" above can actually be interpreted). I'll try again and maybe not go as high this time.

What kind of groups were you feeling with your 308 150gr Barnes loads? Anything an inch or under I'd be very happy with.