AMMO RANT! Who Still Sells Ammo to CA?

[ceedubG]

OK, so now that you've acknowledged the ordinances exist, you just don't think they apply, go back and see what multiple people wrote about lawsuits. There's a history of California (the state) and individual cities within California (San Francisco notably) suing out of state entities over such ordinances saying they DO apply. It's very expensive to defend against such a suit and out of state companies have no interest in being a test case in order to open up one city's worth of market.

I think you're missing a link. The Oakland ordinance you cited to applies ONLY to buyers and sellers conducting a transaction IN Oakland. Both parties have to be in Oakland at the time of sale for the ordinance to apply. (Again which is why there are no brick and mortar ammo sellers in Oakland)

Relying on SFGate, BANG papers, or the Tribune for accurate and unbiased 2A reporting is dangerous! Here's the text of the ordinance I think you are getting at: http://clerkwebsvr1.oaklandnet.com/a...ents/24223.pdf

And upon reading it you will see that the law focus on "ammunition vendors within the city."

My rant has noting to do with that. My rant has everything to do with internet sales that are not subject to a single rule, law, or ordinance.

If you think I'm wrong, please cite to the ordinance that prohibits online sales (from out of state) to an Oakland resident. (hint: there is none, but I'm happy to see what you come up with).

Also I don't think there are any lawsuits by city's against out of state ammo sellers alleging that the sellers were violating some city ordinance for selling to the citizens within the City. (Well there certainly haven't been any lawsuits bu Oakland for that).

If there are suits from other cities in the state please show me the link to the suits, I'd be interested in seeing what the actual Complaint says.

-Cee

[kcheung2]

I'm in one of those named cities that makes it hard to get ammo, but I still get ammo delivered. Find a UPS store in the suburbs near your work, preferably if the suburb is a different name. Live in LA? Go to Glendale or West Covina. SF? Daly City or El Cerrito. Don't even need an acct, they'll just charge $5 per delivery. Don't need to tell them ahead of time either, they'll accept & sign for it regardless.

Yeah, the extra $5 kinda sucks, but there will always be someone there to sign for it, it gets placed behind the counter so no one grabs it, and businesses get delivered early so I can pick it up during lunch. It's especially helpful for reloaders because hazmat deliveries require a signature, and I don't want to take a day off work just to sign for a box of powder.

Or you could just keep ranting, cause apparently you need extra warmth in July?

[opos]

S&G gets all my loaded ammo business..just gave the UPS guy's hernia a work out last week..they got no problem with California as long as it's not the forbidden city things....Gander is delivering next week. I went to Turners following their "ad" and found that the local store has not had any of what was advertised for months..turns out the ad took their total "chain wide" +10 amount and that was what they posted...I'm pretty much done with them..and I won't shop at wally world...get enough and then get some more..with CD's at 1/2 of 1% I think ammo and components will be a better investment when the crunch comes..I'm not going to be a gouger but I will ask the going market when the time comes...anyone can do that if they buy now.

[ceedubG]

Well I guess it's time to start learning reloading. More toys!!!

[uechikid]

This is from PSA's website

We WILL NOT ship ammunition to the following areas:
This is not a comprehensive list, but is meant as a guide.
It is in no way meant to include all laws and restrictions across the United States.
Please contact the authorities in your area for any possible restrictions.
If you do live in a restricted area, your order will be cancelled.

- California: No Sales to the cities of Los Angeles, Oakland, Sacramento, San Francisco, or Avalon.

Do you live in one of these areas? If so you most likely aren't going to get anyone to ship to you.
I've seen the same thing listed on other website as well.

That being said, Sportsman's Guild won't ship to my address and I'm not in a restricted area. Most other online suppliers will.
Keep looking.

[ceedubG]

This is from PSA's website

We WILL NOT ship ammunition to the following areas:
This is not a comprehensive list, but is meant as a guide.
It is in no way meant to include all laws and restrictions across the United States.
Please contact the authorities in your area for any possible restrictions.
If you do live in a restricted area, your order will be cancelled.

- California: No Sales to the cities of Los Angeles, Oakland, Sacramento, San Francisco, or Avalon.

Do you live in one of these areas? If so you most likely aren't going to get anyone to ship to you.
I've seen the same thing listed on other website as well.

That being said, Sportsman's Guild won't ship to my address and I'm not in a restricted area. Most other online suppliers will.
Keep looking.

I do... I live in Oakland...

And as was discussed above, PSA's refusal to sell ammo to those listed cities is not based on any city ordinance prohibiting said city's citizens of purchasing ammo online. It's just that PSA has someone who believes that, and despite being shown the error of their ways, they have no interest in being corrected and adding customers from those cities.

Many other online retailers do ship to Oakland, LA etc., but the prices are not nearly as competitive.

As a side note, it would be interesting to know if any of these online ammo retailers donated money to fight the ammo registration bill here in CA. Clearly CA is a huge market and it would be nice to know that the retailers recognized that and at least contributed to the effort.

-Cee

[Jimmy's]

Make your own.

[uechikid]

I just read the Oakland ordnance that deals with ammunition sale and it seems a bit vague to me. Chapter 9.20 - AMMUNITION SALES REGISTRATION

[Eljay]

Also I don't think there are any lawsuits by city's against out of state ammo sellers alleging that the sellers were violating some city ordinance for selling to the citizens within the City. (Well there certainly haven't been any lawsuits bu Oakland for that).

I think we're kind of circling the drain here. I can give you examples of California and Californian cities suing companies outside of California for all kinds of things, but no, not the narrow tiny thing you're asking for, not off the top of my head. Do you really think it matters, like oh, they've sued for X, Y, and Z but they totally won't do it for this?

So the lawsuit that has everybody so freaked out is about "Rebuild Kits". At the time magazine rebuild kits were totally legal. The city of San Francisco sued three companies for selling rebuild kits into San Francisco - again, totally legal product. All three ended up settling.

Here's some links to get you started.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=776301

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/High-capacity-ammo-repair-kit-lawsuit-4592551.php

https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/pages/exile-machine-settles-with-san-francisco-over-repair-kit-suit-39.html

Notice Exile actually says how much they paid to settle (on top of whatever legal fees they'd already spent).

In that environment I find it hard to blame anybody for not selling ammo into Oakland.

[ceedubG]

I think we're kind of circling the drain here. I can give you examples of California and Californian cities suing companies outside of California for all kinds of things, but no, not the narrow tiny thing you're asking for, not off the top of my head. Do you really think it matters, like oh, they've sued for X, Y, and Z but they totally won't do it for this?

So the lawsuit that has everybody so freaked out is about "Rebuild Kits". At the time magazine rebuild kits were totally legal. The city of San Francisco sued three companies for selling rebuild kits into San Francisco - again, totally legal product. All three ended up settling.

Here's some links to get you started.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=776301

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/High-capacity-ammo-repair-kit-lawsuit-4592551.php

https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/pages/exile-machine-settles-with-san-francisco-over-repair-kit-suit-39.html

Notice Exile actually says how much they paid to settle (on top of whatever legal fees they'd already spent).

In that environment I find it hard to blame anybody for not selling ammo into Oakland.

Seriously?

Not sure you've got your euphemisms correct there. I am "circling" the fact there are no regulations prohibiting ammo sales to Oakland residents from vendors outside Oakland. That. Is. All. I've. Been. Trying. To. Tell. You. This. Whole. Time.

For some reason you realllllllly want to be right on this point so you keep trying to change my point to fit your facts, despite that I've even provided you the Oakland City Ordinance.

Who was talking about rebuild kits?

Andddd, that "narrow thing" I'm "asking for" is the complete point of what I have been saying through out this whole thread.

No Ammo regulations for online sales in Oakland.

Your comments on rebuild kits have zero bearing on what I'm talking about and zero relevance to my points and observations. We call that a red herring in my industry.

Apples meet oranges....

To end your post with "I find it hard to blame anybody for not selling ammo into Oakland" only shows that you feel like it's OK to be lazy and not read the actual rules/ordinances and you give a pass to companies that do the same because it's easier. Not the best 2A support when it's needed every where (even Oakland).

I hope this has been educational for you, 'cause all I was intending on doing was to b*tch into the abyss of the internet about silly fallacious ammo restrictions.

I do hope you now have realized there are actually no laws that prevent PSA or their ilk from selling to Oakland, LA etc.

Thanks.

-Cee

[elk hunter]

None of us live in a make believe land, except for some of these ammo sellers who make believe that there are ordinances to prohibit online sales to places like Oakland. And, when their error has been pointed out to them, they shrug.

As far as growing up and getting over it; if you refer to the titled to the thread and my subsequent comments within it, I am merely b*itching just to b*tch. I wasn't looking for solutions or ways to change these companies policies and there are several sellers out there that ship to me...

Sometimes ya just wanna yell loudly into the internet's abyss!!!

-Cee

If it makes you feel better go outside lay down on the sidewalk and bang your head on it, in any case the facts are they ain't gonna sell you any ammo at your your address in that part of Kali and nothing you do or ***** about is going to fix that. You want a fix for it "CHANGE YOUR STATE and LOCAL governments LAWS".

[tonyjr]

When S F and Oakland did their thing , I wrote them a letter .
I used to buy my ammo and look around while my wife was shopping .
Then go to eat . Now it is drive to Manteca area to brass pro shops -
That means you lost restaurant , store , gas station and parking meter money .
This makes a lot of sense - None of the people you don't want to have ammo have cars and are willing to drive to get it .

I did the same thing to Governor .
How much sales tax are we losing to Nevada because of new gun crap ?
People in California bought a little over 1.5 million guns last year .
Don't get wrong idea — we go to Reno on my birthday , the wife's and our anniversary . Last year she said , lets go to Reno , I want to see Alfie's new baby and you can go to the gun stores while we talk . 10% of 500 = 50 dollars you lost + clothes and restaurant taxes .
How long will it be before I will see the results of the new gun laws ?

[ceedubG]

If it makes you feel better go outside lay down on the sidewalk and bang your head on it, in any case the facts are they ain't gonna sell you any ammo at your your address in that part of Kali and nothing you do or ***** about is going to fix that. You want a fix for it "CHANGE YOUR STATE and LOCAL governments LAWS".

That's the tough part: I've worked to change the laws with financial contributions. The reality of this state is that it's a total losing battle. No amount of money, time, or energy will stop this overwhelming Anti-2A agenda. The law makers come at us EVERY year, and there's just not enough people to fight back.

The biggest problem is that most people just don't care. They don't have an interest in shooting sports, therefore they just dont care. There's not enough time in the day for people to put the effort into learning about something that really doesn't affect their daily lives. And that's what's going on here. So, if the press and the goverment say to the people that don't care , that these laws will make us safer, those people just say, OK. These people arent analyzing the proposed laws, they aren't wondering how it affects lawful gun owners.

There's just not enough bandwidth in all of our lives to care for and fight for issues that don't touch our daily lives.

Not enough people shoot, therefore they just couldn't be bothered.

-Cee