Need Help setting up dies

[Rob5r]

I am reloading 9x18 Mak on a Dillon 650 using a Lyman 3-die Carbide set. I am using range pick up brass that has been wet tumbled, and Missouri Bullets 93gr RN with high tek coating. On the seating/crimp die, I randomly have a bullet get stuck in the die, the case comes out leaving the bullet in the die. I am using a 9x18 expander(.364" Dillon powder funnel) to bell the case, and that Lyman die is not being used. Each time this happend (every 5-7 rounds), I have to take out the seater stem and push out the bullet, then reset the seater stem for the right OAL.

I called Lyman. They said it's the brass. Sure enough, Starline brass is significantly shorter then the speer, hornady and FC brass that is mixed in. So I seperated the brass and set up the dies with only Starline brass. I chose to go with the shorter brass because if it works, I can trim the longer brass to be similar in length. Made a dozen rounds no problem. All worked in the chamber gauge. Then it happened again.

The other brands of brass measure between .702 - .713, most is @ .708". The Starline is .693 - .700, most is .694".

The other problem is that most reload manuals that have 9x18 info, are inconsistant on the trim to length. I have 4 manuals that say .703, .710, .713 and .713. All of these are longer than the starline cases. And some of those are brand new in the box! I did verify that the Lyman seat/crimp die IS a taper crimp die. They also said "Wow. We haven't made those for years". I bought these new a long time ago to reload for my brother and they are in very good condition with not rust. At that time, I trimmed a bunch of 9x19 cases, probably to .713. That info came from the Lyman Pistol and Revolver 2nd edition, that I bought around the same time. Hopefully the New 50th edition will have better info.

Can someone help me out here? Do I need to forgo the Dillon and use my old Lyman Spar-T turret press and all the Lyman dies?

[Bumslie]

You can borrow my lee dies and try it out. I've had no problems with then when making my own mak brass.

[Rob5r]

You can borrow my lee dies and try it out. I've had no problems with then when making my own mak brass.

Yeah, according to Lyman, the range brass I'm using IS the problem. The last time I loaded for this caliber, I made my own brass. I trimmed 9x19 brass which meant the OAL was consistant. Checking a couple dozen of the range brass has measurements varying by .025"! Hard to set a seater/crimp die using this. So I think I'm going to try and find a seperate taper crimp die. Redding makes one, but it's like $70! Rcbs hs one (special order for @ $32. And Lee has one called "Factory Crimp Die". Gotta see if that means roll or taper crimp.

Or maybe I sell this brass and make my own......

[McGuiver]

Need Help setting up dies

Yeah, according to Lyman, the range brass I'm using IS the problem. The last time I loaded for this caliber, I made my own brass. I trimmed 9x19 brass which meant the OAL was consistant. Checking a couple dozen of the range brass has measurements varying by .025"! Hard to set a seater/crimp die using this. So I think I'm going to try and find a seperate taper crimp die. Redding makes one, but it's like $70! Rcbs hs one (special order for @ $32. And Lee has one called "Factory Crimp Die". Gotta see if that means roll or taper crimp.



Or maybe I sell this brass and make my own......

I have been loading 9mm Makarov on my Dillon 450 with Lee dies.

Last die for Factory Crimp is a taper crimp for this one. I have only ever had problems with Hornady brass in Makarov. It is 0.01" undersized from SAMMI spec in length.

I have a set of Dillon 38 Super dies that I will modify for loading Makarov rounds. Dies will need some honing. Especially the carbide sizing one.

I do have a Dillon Makarov flare/powder funnel I use in Station 1.

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Pistol/9%20x%2018%20Makarov.pdf

[Rob5r]

I think my problem is the great variance in brass OAL. I'm probably going to get the Lee Factory Crimp die. A four die set up is so much easier.

[sofbak]

The Lee FCD is a variant if a roll crimp die. And it is very sensitive to case length because of how it "rolls" the case mouth at the end of the press stroke.

With a wide variance in case length, you would have to sort by length and then adjust the die for each batch.

[Rob5r]

The Lee FCD is a variant if a roll crimp die. And it is very sensitive to case length because of how it "rolls" the case mouth at the end of the press stroke.

With a wide variance in case length, you would have to sort by length and then adjust the die for each batch.

OK. I'll continue my search for a reasonably priced taper crimp die.

[McGuiver]

Need Help setting up dies

OK. I'll continue my search for a reasonably priced taper crimp die.

Only straight wall pistol cartridges are roll crimped 38spl, 45LC, etc. The others are taper crimped. I could swear that the the Lee Factory Crimp Die for the Makarov is a taper crimp. I have many 4 die carbide sets from Lee. I don't remember them putting a roll crimp in. The 38spl die did do a roll crimp.

[Rob5r]

Yeah, I know roll crimp - revolver, taper - auto. But Sofbak says the Lee FCD is a variant if a roll crimp die. Guess I should call them and see if they have a taper crimp die only, that is not listed on the web site. Sofbak also says the Lee FCD is very sensitive to case OAL. I'm starting to think I should go back to plan A, and cut 9x19 brass. At least the OAL will be consistant.

I have 4 manuals that say the "trim to" length should be .703, .710, .713 and .713. All of these are longer than the starline cases and the other head stamps are even longer. The diagram you provided says .713 - .010. So if I trim, I'll do .713".

[sofbak]

Only straight wall pistol cartridges are roll crimped 38spl, 45LC, etc. The others are taper crimped. I could swear that the the Lee Factory Crimp Die for the Makarov is a taper crimp. I have many 4 die carbide sets from Lee. I don't remember them putting a roll crimp in. The 38spl die did do a roll crimp.

I didn't realize the mak cartridge was tapered.... The drawing in the Lee manual indicates it is straight wall at .390" dia. You may be correct.

If you have the Lee FCD for that cartridge, it is relatively simple to determine what kind of crimp it employs. Unscrew the depth adjustment stem on top of the die and remove the crimping bushing. If there is an internal "lip" at the top of the bushing, then it's going to roll the case mouth if it is adjusted that deep onto the case. No lip, no roll.....

[Rob5r]

I didn't realize the mak cartridge was tapered.... The drawing in the Lee manual indicates it is straight wall at .390" dia. You may be correct.

If you have the Lee FCD for that cartridge, it is relatively simple to determine what kind of crimp it employs. Unscrew the depth adjustment stem on top of the die and remove the crimping bushing. If there is an internal "lip" at the top of the bushing, then it's going to roll the case mouth if it is adjusted that deep onto the case. No lip, no roll.....

I don't wanna have to buy one to find out. Gonna call them. Otherwise, according to Midway, RCBS has one but it's a special order item.