.45 LC small primers?

[CSACANNONEER]

WTF? I started running a batch of .45LC and found some brass with small primer pockets. Has anyone else seen any? Or, does everyone else just use the new stuff with large primer pockets? Were small primers for .45LC a mil spec thing? The brass is old military brass. Does anyone know if all .45LC was originally designed for small primers? BTW, the headstamp is "FA 13". Yea, I know what that means. I also know that it is once fired since, I got it when I worked at an indoor range and watched the guy shoot it. It was the ammo he found in the box with his grandfather's gun.

['ol shooter]

Check the flash holes to see if they are normal or oversized. If oversized, they are for wax bullets only for quick draw competition and use no powder, just a primer.

[CSACANNONEER]

Check the flash holes to see if they are normal or oversized. If oversized, they are for wax bullets only for quick draw competition and use no powder, just a primer.

Really? Franklin Arsenal made special wax bullet loads for quick draw competitions back in 1913? I sort of doubt that but, I guess it could be possible. BTW, if anything, the flash holes are just a little undersized. Also, there is a hump around the flash hole on the inside of the case head.

['ol shooter]

Never know what you're going to pick up off the ground, no matter the age. I know you know better, but what about those who don't? The case could have been re-purposed and a novice could load them without looking and spoil his/her day when the gun blows up in their hand. Posted it for them.

[lost Bob]

Are you talking about .45 Colt revolver cartridges or .45 ACP (auto pistol) cartridges?

Some manufacturers do use small primers in .45 ACP, but the "standard" original cases take large pistol primers.

The military quit using .45 Colt revolvers a long time ago. The 1911 .45 ACP was adopted in, lets see, 1911!

[FLIGHT762]

"FA" Is "Frankford Arsenal".

The Frankford Arsenal is a former United States Army ammunition plant located adjacent to the Bridesburg neighborhood of Northeast Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, north of the original course of Frankford Creek.

Built in 1816. Closed in 1977.

Check the inside of the cases to see if they are the "Balloon" head cases. I would say they likely are. Balloon head cases are weaker than newer cases.

[CSACANNONEER]

Are you talking about .45 Colt revolver cartridges or .45 ACP (auto pistol) cartridges?

Some manufacturers do use small primers in .45 ACP, but the "standard" original cases take large pistol primers.

The military quit using .45 Colt revolvers a long time ago. The 1911 .45 ACP was adopted in, lets see, 1911!

I'm talking about .45 Colt or .45 Long Colt depending on who you talk to. I know the US military stopped using .45LC a long time ago but, these cartridges were produced at FA in 1913. didn't you see the reference to the headstamp?

"FA" Is "Frankford Arsenal".

The Frankford Arsenal is a former United States Army ammunition plant located adjacent to the Bridesburg neighborhood of Northeast Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, north of the original course of Frankford Creek.

Built in 1816. Closed in 1977.

Check the inside of the cases to see if they are the "Balloon" head cases. I would say they likely are. Balloon head cases are weaker than newer cases.

I'm not sure what you mean by "balloon". There do have a raised area around the flash hole on the inside of the case head.

[ironhorse1]

I'm not sure what you mean by "balloon". There do have a raised area around the flash hole on the inside of the case head.[/QUOTE]


The case head is not solid brass hence it has the balloon head.

A balloon head case has great powder capacity but is weaker over all.

An original .45 Colt could hold 40 grains of BP while a solid head case only takes about 28 grains. All my balloon head cases use LPP.

irh

[CSACANNONEER]

After a quick google image search, I know what "balloon cases" are and yes, the FA ones I have are balloon type with small primer pockets.

[Cowboy T]

Wow, CSACANNONEER, I've actually never seen real live balloon cases. That's pretty cool, what you found there. Cases that are 103 years old, that's just cool! Can you post pics?

Those balloon cases, BTW, are the ones that the original loading of 40gr of black powder were spec'ed for. Those old loads got well over 900 fps out of the SAA. Modern cases can't fit quite that much BP due to the stronger construction. You planning on reloading these? If so, that'd be very cool.

Never did hear of any SPP versions of either the .45 Colt or .45 Schofield. Always thought it had always been LPP. So, that's very interesting, indeed. That said, about 6 years ago, I ran across some Remington .357M cases with large pistol primer pockets, so yes, on occasion you do run across something unusual and noteworthy.

[CSACANNONEER]

I'll try to take some pics tomorrow with my phone but, I'm not promising much.

[CCrawford]

I remember reading something awhile back in one of my old reloading manuals about some military brass having a special size primer and the author was advising to find other brass to reload. The arsenals (or NRA?) did sell the custom size primers to the public, but the author did not think it was worth having the brass around if you had any choice in the matter.

Found a reference to them under bullet point E. about a 1/3 of the way down.



This was not the article I was reading, but it does ID them possibly. Page is from "Handloading Ammunition" by J. R. Mattern, 1926

Another point of reference is a Ken Waters' "Pet Loads" graphic from November 1978 article about .45 ACP in "Handloader" Magazine.




Criss

[CSACANNONEER]

WOW, THANKS. That's really cool and a good reason not to throw out older manuals when new ones come out. I had no idea that my question or the answer was so obscure. I thought they were just small pistol primers and not some rare size. I'll measure a primer pocket tomorrow and take a few pictures too. I guess I'll bag up the few rounds I have, label them, include this great info in the bag and keep them as a curiosity.

[CCrawford]

You should bag all the cases up as corrosive mercury primers and brass normally do not mix well unless care is taken immediately after firing from what I have read. Also the balloon head is just asking for trouble even without the corrosion issue. I would also not enlarge the primer pocket as the balloon head will not have enough material left for safety anyway.

Criss

[CSACANNONEER]