Trim Dies for Dillon type trimmers - why so $$$?

[Psychbiker]

So I've changed my mind and gonna go with a Titan trim Bosch router setup. I have the Bosch router already for wood stuff.

GSI sells two trim die packages. One is a two die setup for rough and finish and one is just a finish. Can't someone explain? If just using the rough die with a trimmer, do they need to be run through again? YouTube show 223 getting cut and sized to blackout in a single pass.

Why are there $50 Dillon trim dies and a $180 die? Isn't the blade for cutting on the motor? Why so much?

I'm going to need a 223 and 308 trim die. The Titan package for $215 comes with a blackout GSI Trim die. I assume it's the rough trim die.

[Zamble]

I have been holding back on buying my .308 trim die from Dillon, @ $175, it is pricey.

[CGZ]

The cheaper ones are steel and require the brass to be lubricated, the more expensive ones are carbide and supposedly don't require lubrication. I wish they made a steel 300 AAC die, they only make the carbide.

[MrElectric03]

I agree they are pricey but they are nice. Because it's a sizer, plus two different threads machines in its all in machine time. I won't spend the money for the carbide ones and I seem to remember reading somewhere that Dillon still recommends lubing with the carbide sizes on bottleneck cases. If you process large amounts of brass that trimmer is great. If you are doing 50-100 at a time it's tough to justify.

[popeye4]

The cheaper ones are steel and require the brass to be lubricated, the more expensive ones are carbide and supposedly don't require lubrication. I wish they made a steel 300 AAC die, they only make the carbide.

Not completely true. All bottleneck cartridges require lubrication. The carbide dies for these cartridges are to make them tougher to reduce wear and extend their useful life, not to eliminate the lube step.

At $175/die, it doesn't take long to be able to justify a Giraud from merely a cost standpoint......

[Whiterabbit]

Does anyone use a trim die on a progressive press? Specifically, in a process that includes prime, charge, and bullet seating operations.

If so, can someone explain where the shavings go? I know there are windows on the die and a vac attachment, but even still, surely SOME shavings have to go inside the case.

Does that not potentially poison the flashhole, risking intermittent ignition issues?

Or: why is it a non-issue when one-stop progressive reloading? (unless people just don't do that)

[ARog]

I was going to go the Dillon 1500 route but when I added the cost of the carbide die, trimmer and then I would need to get a shop vac to clean the brass shavings I ended up ordering a Giraud Power Trimmer. As much as I would like to just do it on the press, the Dillon only trims where the Giraud trims, chamfer and deburrs all at the same time.

[Whiterabbit]

yes. the cost is high. Meaning the only true benefit IMO is the ability to do it inline for production. It's easy to see the benefit if you have a toolhead set up for JUST brass prep, then prime, charge, and seat in a totally new operation.

But what about doing it all in one shot? from fired to finished including trim? It's clearly possible, but it seems to me that there is risk for brass shavings falling into cases. It's a guarantee. Now, what are the consequences of that?

Anything "bad"? That's the real question. Answering that requires the experience from someone who has tried to set it up.

[Zamble]

The trimming is done separately. A plastic piece goes around the trimmer and you hook a vacuum hose up to it. You don't load rounds while trimming.

[Whiterabbit]

Sounds like you can't even prime rounds while trimming.

[ARog]

But what about doing it all in one shot? from fired to finished including trim?

I had asked this same question a week ago and came to the conclusion that unless you have one of those $30,000 reloading machines...it's not really possible...If only they made a Dillon Super 2050 that had 12 stations! LOL

[Whiterabbit]

well, let's assume that it is physically possible ARog. Is it desirable? I'm suggesting that there is the appearance of a risk of brass shavings getting into loaded rounds if you do it all. Zamble above is stating in a roundabout way that that risk is too high to justify doing it.

I'm curious if that is the overwhelming opinion of the majority, or if there is a reasoned minority who thinks otherwise, with respect to risk analysis.

------

Summed up another way, what is the potential consequence of some brass shavings floating in a case just before priming, charging, etc? And what is the likelyhood of that consequence happening, given that brass shavings would be present?

Only consequence I can think of that matters is a possible FTF based on brass falling into a flash hole. But what is the probability of that happening? 1%? .1%? .01%? (that's one in 10,000 rounds...)

[Psychbiker]

I was going to go the Dillon 1500 route but when I added the cost of the carbide die, trimmer and then I would need to get a shop vac to clean the brass shavings I ended up ordering a Giraud Power Trimmer. As much as I would like to just do it on the press, the Dillon only trims where the Giraud trims, chamfer and deburrs all at the same time.

I keep going back and forth. Almost got a used Gracey with giraud blade and upgrades 3000rpm motor for $260. Would have been another $40 for a blackout shell holder.

To do blackout from 223 brass then a press mounted trimmer like Dillon 1500 or router based unit seems the only option.

I already heard that giraud and Gracey don't do blackout well.

I usually mass decap with a universal decapper, then tumble clean then start the process. Being able to size and trim in a single pass is great for 223/308. I have a Hornady progressive and single stage. I won't be able to utilize the case feeder/progressive while processing blackout. I'm going to have to use a shell extender and mount the trimmer on the single stage.

On the progressive lnl I'll be able to size, trim and prime then put back for powder and seating.

With a carbide cutter, case mouths look great with the Dillon. Might be able to time it so I tumble the lube off after trimming which will debur and chamfer a little. I'll be loading my own casted bullets so I'll likely have to use a die to lightly bell the case anyway.

$215 + $100 is the cost to be up and running for blackout. Add $65 for each additional trim die from CH4D.

I gotta decide soon as summer is coming, I work education and have the months off. I have easily 4K in each caliber to process.

Handling 12k cases by hand in a trimmer....yikes!

[ARog]

I keep going back and forth. Almost got a used Gracey with giraud blade and upgrades 3000rpm motor for $260. Would have been another $40 for a blackout shell holder.

To do blackout from 223 brass then a press mounted trimmer like Dillon 1500 or router based unit seems the only option.

I already heard that giraud and Gracey don't do blackout well.

I usually mass decap with a universal decapper, then tumble clean then start the process. Being able to size and trim in a single pass is great for 223/308. I have a Hornady progressive and single stage. I won't be able to utilize the case feeder/progressive while processing blackout. I'm going to have to use a shell extender and mount the trimmer on the single stage.

On the progressive lnl I'll be able to size, trim and prime then put back for powder and seating.

With a carbide cutter, case mouths look great with the Dillon. Might be able to time it so I tumble the lube off after trimming which will debur and chamfer a little. I'll be loading my own casted bullets so I'll likely have to use a die to lightly bell the case anyway.

$215 + $100 is the cost to be up and running for blackout. Add $65 for each additional trim die from CH4D.

I gotta decide soon as summer is coming, I work education and have the months off. I have easily 4K in each caliber to process.

Handling 12k cases by hand in a trimmer....yikes!

Dude, prepping just 50 cases by hand in a trimmer was enough to push me to buy the Giraud trimmer...LOL

If the Dillon 1500 chamfered and debured as well I would have gone that route...but to hear people trim with the Dillon and then then throw them back into the tumbler seems a bit silly (not really saving time) to me.

[Psychbiker]

Seems likes it's the same amount of time to me really. If you're handling each piece of brass one at a time AND having to size before, gonna take a while. Where as a progressive with a power trimmer is trimming and sizing much faster.

After you size aren't you somehow getting the lube off?

Seems like a wash time was between the two and depends what your going for. Quantity or absolute perfect brass. I need to get more examples of Dillon trimmed brass. Handling thousands of pieces of brass does not sound fun plus of the Giraud doesn't do blackout, that eliminates a caliber for me.