Precision Rifle loading & Annealing

[boomer135]

I have been kicking around the idea of annealing my brass for the past 6 months. From what I have researched, annealing will increase my brass life, but more importantly give me a more consistent neck tension.

I notice on virgin brass once run though a Lyman M die I have low spreads, and SD's. After a few loadings those numbers start to rise. I've also noticed neck tension varying 1-2/1000 and I can feel the difference in the press while seating bullets.

Do you think annealing is the next step to take for improving the consistancy of neck tension and bullet grip?

I am using redding competition neck and seating dies.

[stephewc]

I would give it a try and see how it works for you. It actually isn't too expensive to get into annealing.

I use a propane torch and cordless drill (socket to hold brass). With a single flame, it takes about 6 seconds to get it annealed. I also use a metronome app on my smartphone to count the 6 seconds.

With brass that has been reloaded a few times, I find that annealing does help make them run through the dies much easier.

[waawaaweenie]

if you plan on reusing the brass many times or it is a high quality or hard to get type, then it seems feasible.

I just saw this video on a new annealing machine and of course the other one he mentions without mentioning is probably the Giraud model which is expensive but he does build quality stuff

[fguffey]

I do not use neck tension, I use bullet hold, I can measure bullet hold in pounds when pulling and seating. I do not have a gage that measures tension. I can measure interference fit and crush fit. Annealing does reduce the cases ability to resist sizing.

There are many reloaders that believe they can neck size a case after firing 5 times and then start over by full length sizing the case back to minimum length; and I always wonder how that is possible to start over; the a case that has been fired 5 times.

Every time the case is fired it is worked, ever time the case is sized it is worked; working the case work hardens the case.

Years ago I decided there were a few rules and factors that governed annealing; based on the rules and factors I made tools I could use to anneal.

F. Guffey

[ar15barrels]

I notice on virgin brass once run though a Lyman M die I have low spreads, and SD's. After a few loadings those numbers start to rise.
I've also noticed neck tension varying 1-2/1000 and I can feel the difference in the press while seating bullets.

Anneal every 3 firings.
If using the lyman M die helps your consistency of seating pressure, keep doing that too as it will even out the ID of the cases after they were sized from the OUTSIDE by the die.

Also consider getting an arbor press and a wilson hand die for seating.
That will REALLY let you feel the different seating pressure and you can set aside the rounds that felt too easy or too hard and use those for practice.

[micro911]

I reload my 308 Win brass about 5 - 6 times, and never annealed them. It worked fine for me with good accuracy. I heard top shooters do it. I shoot NM cross the course matches/service rifle matches and it doesn't matter for my type of shooting.

[boomer135]

I do not use neck tension, I use bullet hold, I can measure bullet hold in pounds when pulling and seating. I do not have a gage that measures tension. I can measure interference fit and crush fit. Annealing does reduce the cases ability to resist sizing.

There are many reloaders that believe they can neck size a case after firing 5 times and then start over by full length sizing the case back to minimum length; and I always wonder how that is possible to start over; the a case that has been fired 5 times.

Every time the case is fired it is worked, ever time the case is sized it is worked; working the case work hardens the case.

Years ago I decided there were a few rules and factors that governed annealing; based on the rules and factors I made tools I could use to anneal.

F. Guffey

I agree with your reply. I can feel the difference in the handle of the press when seating. With virgin brass seating feels uniform in energy trasferred from the loading press ram-handle-to my calibrated hand. But after a few loadings I find the pressure varying more from round to round. Just curious if annealing will correct, or help this for me and produce a more consistent/uniform bullet grip, or neck to bullet tension. Helping to provide better accuracy.

[ar15barrels]

I shoot NM cross the course matches/service rifle matches and it doesn't matter for my type of shooting.

If you are not trying to get your 1/3 to 1/2 moa groups down to 1/4 to 1/3 moa, annealing is not going to matter.

[boomer135]

There is the answer. If Randall says do it, Then I will. He has always given me great info based on true experience. I do start to notice the difference after the 2nd-3rd firing. I only use the M die for virgin brass or to true up the ID if needed.

Anneal every 3 firings.
If using the lyman M die helps your consistency of seating pressure, keep doing that too as it will even out the ID of the cases after they were sized from the OUTSIDE by the die.

Also consider getting an arbor press and a wilson hand die for seating.
That will REALLY let you feel the different seating pressure and you can set aside the rounds that felt too easy or too hard and use those for practice.

[Metal God]

Yeah anneal your brass It "might" help ??? The cool thing about annealing is you don't need to bother about temperatures or anything . Just put the case in the flame and when you think it's ready just pull it on out .
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OMG , I crack me up . Sorry guys it's an inside joke . Everything I said above is not true lol
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[boomer135]

Thread crapping is not appreciated.

Yeah anneal your brass It "might" help ??? The cool thing about annealing is you don't need to bother about temperatures or anything . Just put the case in the flame and when you think it's read just pull it on out .
OMG , I crack me up . Sorry guys it's an inside joke . Everything I said above is not true lol
.

[eric n]

I gave up on it.
Unless you have a lot of neck clearance, your primer pockets will go before necks split.
After testing annealed vs not, I can't see a difference with vertical on target.
I do use a bit more "neck tension" then most (.003)
Try it both ways and see what works for you, a bottle of propane and tempilaq are cheap.
Fwiw... That's 600 yds and closer

[BigJ]

Annealing will increase brass life.

All other things being equal, it will also help with neck tension.

But that's not necessarily why I do it every single time. I'm a big believer in consistency, especially when it comes to trying to diagnose issues. If you're starting from a baseline each and every time, issues are far more easily identified and addressed.

FWIW, here's the annealer we use. Makes the job a quick one, and hell its kinda fun to watch work too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i33z2hflbSY

If you go that route, get yourself some 750deg Tempilaq. You can use it to set the speed correctly.

[ar15barrels]

FWIW, here's the annealer we use. Makes the job a quick one, and hell its kinda fun to watch work too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i33z2hflbSY

Nice Giraud knock-off.

[boomer135]

I have been looking at that one, or possibly building my own.

Just looked up the K&M Arbor Press. Holy Cow. Talk about precision and you can measure the seating force. I didn't know those existed, makes a lot of sense now. If I decide to get back to OCD loading I will go that route. http://kmshooting.com/arbor-press/ar...indicator.html

Nice Giraud knock-off.