question about neck dies

[thegamettt]

I started reloading yesterday. Prepared and mounted my Lee deluxe neck die per the instructions. Seems like it takes way more force and LOTS of lube compared to FL sizing die. is this normal? FL took practically zero effort.

I'm working with fireformed fgmm brass from my own bolt rifle. Lee challenger breech lock press.

something wrong with the die maybe? I lubed the sht out of it with gun oil, and it got a lot easier, but still way harder than FL. Like I said im new, so I may just be a weakling. I always thought FL would be a lot harder.

let me know if theres something I should look out for or inspect? I did buy the dies used, and I blew them out with compressed air too.

[fguffey]

let me know if there is something I should look out for or inspect?

There is no way the neck sizing die would take more effort to size the neck than it would take to return the case to minimum size/full length size with a full length sizing die. I suggest you check the die for identification.

You should be able to remove the primer punch/neck sizing assemble from the die and then place the case backwards into the neck sizing die.

Then there is the chance you have a collet die, it is possible the previous owner made adjustments and fitted the die to their use.

F. Guffey

[opos]

Guess I'm a little confused....if you are using the Lee Collet neck sizing dies they don't take any lube as the only thing you are sizing is the neck forward of the shoulder..there is no sizing done to the case body at all....I use them all the time..it's a "different" feel than a full length size die as the full size die has some "give" to it as the die reforms the brass...the collet die closes down on the neck and squeezes it into shape and there is no "give" It simply takes about 25# of pressure on the handle and you judge that by the way the bullet fits the neck after sizing...takes a few practice loadings to get the feel but then it's simple...

What kind of guideline are you using and where did you hear about lubing the brass? Since you are not touching any part of the brass besides the neck itself any lube you would put on the case is just wasted as it does not even touch the die....did you watch the Lee Video in their "help section? simple to set up and simple to use (on brass from the same gun...can't interchange between guns)...might check with Lee if you are having problems as those dies are about as foolproof as can be..The "feel" of the collet die is a firm pressure without much "give" as a collet is squeezing the neck against a mandrel...The Lee help dies show how to set the die but running it in against the shell holder and then turning the die is another turn or turn and a half before locking the die down..are you doing this?

I've used them quite a bit on 30-06, 25-06, 7mm Mauser and 8mm Mauser with no difficulty at all.

[fguffey]

Guess I'm a little confused....

What kind of guideline are you using and where did you hear about lubing the brass? ?

I started reloading yesterday

He said he started reloading yesterday, I am not a fan of having new reloaders start out in a dead run.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

I started reloading yesterday. Prepared and mounted my Lee deluxe neck die per the instructions. .

Tell him what dies come in a Lee Delux set. then assume the dies in the set are the same dies that were shipped to the original owner.

F. Guffey

[thegamettt]

im using the press from the lee anniversary kit. (challenger Breech lock)

I'm using the neck die from the 3 dies deluxe kit(yellow box), which I believe is the collet die. The first time I put a case in, it was so hard it almost got stuck. So I oiled the die and it got a little better.

After I noticed this, I used the FL die a couple times to check how hard it would be, and to my surprise it was so much easier. The neck die just takes way more strength and it almost sounds kinda rough.



im using the die on the left, it is marked 308.

maybe something wrong with die? Like I said I bought it used, but I blew it out with compressed air before use. Any way to check for possible obstruction inside? I shined a light in but couldn't see anything, (plus I wouldn't know what to look for) I'll ask my friend how to take it apart when I get home.

[thegamettt]

yes I set the die exactly like the instructions that came with them.

whats a dead run?

[fguffey]

whats a dead run?

You started reloading yesterday and now you are neck sizing with a collet die. Many reloaders with years of experience had to have therapy after they tried using the collet die. I have Lee dies in sets, I do not use them but I have them just in case.

I would suggest you get some experience before you purchase ever tool that is recommended as necessary to solve all the problems of sizing.

There are not many neck sizing dies I do not have. Like Lee dies; I have neck sizing die, I do not use them but I have them just in case. Then there is that part about factors; what effect does factors have when returning a case to minimum size when compared to the effect of neck sizing.
And then there are threads on dies and presses; threads make it possible to adjust the die in the press.

F. Guffey

[thegamettt]

I guess my philosophy when I started was just to de-prime, so I used the neck one because I read you didn't need to FL right away if they are my own fired brass out of a bolt. and I plan to shoot it only in my rifle.

I should have saved one, I forgot to save one to measure head space but I have a factory rifle if that matters. I guess ill do that next time with the factory ammo I got left. I got carried away and neck sized/deprimed ALL of my fire formed brass lol.

I'm learning as I go. not messing with the other components til I get brass prep completely down.

[opos]

Ok..hold it..The Lee "delux set" (what you have called it and shown the picture of) must come with a full length sizing/decapping die..a Collet neck size/decapping die and a bullet seating die...if you are thinking you are "neck sizing with the die on the left as we look at the picture that is not right...The die on the left side as you look at the picture is a standard full length die with a decapping pin...that is not a collet neck sizing die...the die on the right of the picture with the flat nurled knob on top is a collet die...I'm not sure what comes with what kit but if you got this from someone second hand you may have a bunch of mixed up dies....I'd strongly suggest looking at the lee videos on their web site..if you tried to size the shell "dry" with the die on the left side of the picture looking at it you were trying to full size the brass with no lube....no wonder it was tough and it's lucky you didn't stick the case...I also notice you said somewehre you used gun oil to lube the case...gun oil is not good for lubing cases...I think you need some loading books and possibly a class before you take off at a gallop and get in a real jam...not being an old grouch but learning to load on the internet is not really the safest thing to do..an NRA loading class or a class from one of the LGS that sells supplies, etd (like La Mesa Collectables...I think they have classes) might be of some help.

[sofbak]

Sounds like a mis-adjusted die-too far down or a partially stuck collet. Not exactly your condition, but could be applicable. From the lee instructions:

If your Collet Die buckles the case
shoulder, it is due to the collet being
closed and the case cannot enter. This
is caused by closing the press without
a case in the die and/or the die adjust-
ed too deeply. Remove the collet
from the die and spring it open. It is
best done by pushing a
tapered drift punch into the
collet neck. If none available,
use the round shank of a
Phillips head screw driver to
pry the collet open. Cases that
h a v e b e e n e x c e s s i v e l y
annealed into the shoulder
area may buckle even though
the collet is open.

[opos]

Sounds like a mis-adjusted die-too far down or a partially stuck collet. Not exactly your condition, but could be applicable. From the lee instructions:

If your Collet Die buckles the case
shoulder, it is due to the collet being
closed and the case cannot enter. This
is caused by closing the press without
a case in the die and/or the die adjust-
ed too deeply. Remove the collet
from the die and spring it open. It is
best done by pushing a
tapered drift punch into the
collet neck. If none available,
use the round shank of a
Phillips head screw driver to
pry the collet open. Cases that
h a v e b e e n e x c e s s i v e l y
annealed into the shoulder
area may buckle even though
the collet is open.

Sorry but he specifically said he'd been trying to 'neck size" with the die on the left of his picture...that is not a collet die...the collet die is the flat top on on the right side...


I've not seen a 3 die set like this...it may be an out of date set...the Collet sets I have and I have several...come with only 2 dies...the collet/decap die and the bullet seater along with a shell holder and dipper....I have never seen a true Lee die set with the make up shown in the picture..(a full length sizing die, a collet die and a bullet seater die...but I know if you try to size without lube in a full length die it's a near impossible task..much like the o/p has described....we need to get this straight with him as far (for sure) what dies he's trying to use to neck size....

Here is a amateur video about a comparison (side by side) of a full length sizing die and a collet neck sizing die...the video can be confusing because he doesn't get the die identification mentioned till into the video...and this is simply a conventient way to show the 2 dies side by side but you wouln't use them in that manner...the die on the right as you look at the video is the collet neck sizing die and the die with the nut and pin end on top that is inthe left side of the video is a full length sizing and decapping die

Both dies will decap the fired primer but one die only does the neck sizing and the other full length sizes back to original SAMMI specs...

https://youtu.be/p00MGuZm8Dk

[thegamettt]

Yeah I'm an idiot I mixed up those two dies. Here's a pic of the exact set I have.



So do I have a neck sizing die here or what? This explains why it one was so damn hard and the other was so easy. Fck this is embarrassing.

[opos]

What you have in the picture you have shown here is on the left a full length sizing/decapping die...see the nut at the top of the die and the pin sticking down through the bottom? That is what a full length die looks like...the die in the middle is a bullet seating die...the die on the right with the nurled flat nut on top and the pin sticking out of the bottom is a collet/decapping die...it neck sizes and knocks out the spent primer.....I might suggest you look at the Lee videos and also some videos by ammosmith.com ... his are about the best and it covers all sorts of tools and loading...I think you might have just gotten in a hurry and tried to start to prep your brass and got mixed up...now to further complicate things...there is a die that lee makes called a universal decapping die...it looks like the full length resizing die but the inside is just a bit hole with the decapping pin running down through it...it's used to just decap without doing any sizing (full or neck sizing...either one)...it's handy for decapping spent primers befoe you clean the brass so you can get the primer hole cleaned while cleaning the brass...then you have to size the shell (either full length or neck size).

You need to determine what you want to do and then get the proper tool installed in your press and learn the proper procedure for doing your task...it's awfully easy to mix things up and just start grabbing things...they sort of look alike...you will get it...there are copies of the instructions for all Lee's dies on the internet pdf format if you don't have the instructions...might be of help...

[NewbieLoader]

From left to right you have,
FL sizing die,
Bullet Seating die,
Empty space (on a 4 die set it would be a crimping die)
Neck Sizing die.

We all had to start somewhere, asking questions is a good thing. The resources here on Cal-Guns are incredible. I would use case lube with the FL sizer not gun oil.