Are +P rounds necessary for snubbies?

[SFShep]

When shooting a .38 Special from a small snub-nosed revolver with under a 2" barrel (like a S&W J-Frame), the consensus I'm seeing is that +P rounds are pretty much obligatory in order to get enough muzzle velocity to achieve reliable expansion. Even though most handgun manuals recommend against using +P rounds because it causes more wear and tear on the gun.

When standard-pressure rounds are used (i.e. Federal Hydra Shok Low Recoil, Hornady Critical Defense FTX, etc.), there doesn't seem to be enough muzzle velocity from such a short barrel to get consistent reliable expansion of the bullet when it hits the target. At least that's what I garnered from videos of ballistic gelatin shot through denim.

The only standard pressure round I've heard had good performance was the Federal Nyclad round and those have been out of production for years (even though Federal still lists them on their website).

So can anyone tell me any .38 Special standard-pressure rounds that have good reliable performance from small snub-nose revolvers (aside from wadcutters)? Or is it true that if you want reliable expansion from a small .38 snub-nose, you need a +P round to get that expansion?

[oddjob]

Not sure of standard pressure loads, but I use .38 +P, 158 gn SWC-HP. It used to be known as the FBI or Chicago PD load. I prefer the heavy bullets for the snubbies. I use a "J" frame and a Colt Det Special.

[scbauer]

While we're having the discussion, let's throw .357 into the mix. I recently bought a S&W 340PD and am curious about .38 vs .38+p vs .357

[SFShep]

While we're having the discussion, let's throw .357 into the mix. I recently bought a S&W 340PD and am curious about .38 vs .38+p vs .357

I've shot a .357 in a snub nose before. And it hurts! So much so that I wouldn't even bother with it a second time. So I'll stick to .38's for the small snubbies and use a .357 in the big guns like the Ruger GP-100 or S&W 686.

[74c5]

.357 out of a snubby will cause problems in the dark. Back in 1981 we had to give our 6" S&Ws back for a recall and were given 2 1/2 inchers. There were +P+ rounds back then that seemed a touch hotter than +P.
I'd recommend a bit of chrono time to verify and then some dark shooting to assess the muzzle flash. If you're getting flash, that's energy that isn't giving you anything but white spots.

[SFShep]

.357 out of a snubby will cause problems in the dark. Back in 1981 we had to give our 6" S&Ws back for a recall and were given 2 1/2 inchers. There were +P+ rounds back then that seemed a touch hotter than +P.
I'd recommend a bit of chrono time to verify and then some dark shooting to assess the muzzle flash. If you're getting flash, that's energy that isn't giving you anything but white spots.

Yeah, I think all in all, .357's can be shot from a snub nose at standard pressure without a problem. They are orders of magnitude more powerful than .38's and have enough velocity to get expansion with each shot.

I was thinking more along the lines of .38 Special rounds in particular. They are somewhat more moderately-powered, and may need that extra +P boost to get them going from a snub nose.

[opos]

Believe it is speer that makes a 135 grain "short barrel special" 38 + special...I think it's whole purpose was to get max burn and performance out of a 38 special snub nose...

I have a much older J frame flat latch that sits in a desk drawer..it's loaded with straight 38 special ammo...I figure at 10 feet that is enough...but my GP100 in the night stand has 38+P golden sabers in it...I don't want a 357 going off in my face in an enclosed space.

[SFShep]

Believe it is speer that makes a 135 grain "short barrel special" 38 + special...I think it's whole purpose was to get max burn and performance out of a 38 special snub nose...

I have a much older J frame flat latch that sits in a desk drawer..it's loaded with straight 38 special ammo...I figure at 10 feet that is enough...but my GP100 in the night stand has 38+P golden sabers in it...I don't want a 357 going off in my face in an enclosed space.

Yeah I've heard of that variety and seen good performance reviews in video tests with ballistic gel.

The problem is, like all +P rounds, it's not recommended by the manufacturer for use in the gun. S&W advises against +P rounds because it will shorten the life of your gun with prolonged use.

So I was wondering if anyone has had good results with any particular standard-pressure .38 Special loads out of a <2" barrel snub nose.

[mark501w]

Good light quality bullet for higher velocity. Collect the phone books around you soak'em & shoot'em.

[SkyHawk]

Yeah I've heard of that variety and seen good performance reviews in video tests with ballistic gel.

The problem is, like all +P rounds, it's not recommended by the manufacturer for use in the gun. S&W advises against +P rounds because it will shorten the life of your gun with prolonged use.

So I was wondering if anyone has had good results with any particular standard-pressure .38 Special loads out of a <2" barrel snub nose.

Practice with standard loads, carry with +P if the gun is rated for it. Comparisons of Speer Gold Dot short barrel to Gold Dot +P shows they are nearly identical, with maybe a slight tweak of the split lines on the projectile.

If my gun is rated for +P, there is no way I am carrying it with anything less. If it is rated for 357, I am carrying it with 357.

Flash or discomfort in my palm, or wear on my frame, is 100% inconsequential when the time comes I need to use a snub nose revolver to save my life. At that point, the chips are already way, way down.

So you may go your whole life without ever firing a +P from your snub, and that would be a good thing. But if your gun is rated for it, carry it loaded with them, no question.

['ol shooter]

I load 125gr. JSP's over Titegroup to mid chart specs for my 442. I like control-ability. For my snub 19, standard 158 gr. loads. Both wear Crimson Trace grips.

[mark501w]

In my mod 38 s&w 110's shoot to low & 158's shoot to high. 125's with federal cases shoot to point of aim.

[Beelzy]

I would figure the opposite to be true. While one would desire optimal expansion from a +P .38special,
one also would desire more so to be able to control the firearm.
Light and fast .38 Specials work just fine. IMO

[Eljay]

There's lots of ballistic data out there. Even with +P expansion isn't a totally sure thing although the modern bullets are much improved. Without +P I'd forget about it. Note that you're not going to shoot tons of the stuff because it's expensive and can be unpleasant depending on just how light your revolver is.

.357 Magnum is a lot more unpleasant to shoot, lots of bang and flash and recoil and develops about 50fps more if I remember correctly.

There's a lot to be said for getting a .357 rated revolver and shooting .38 Special most of the time and then deciding for yourself if you want to carry +P or Magnum, without having to commit now. The big drawback is a little more cost and a little more weight. If your whole point in getting a revolver for carry is weight (LCR or similar) it might be a deal breaker.

[hermosabeach]

+P has no meaning.... As Kinetic Energy= 1/2 Mass * Velocity Squared..... If it takes 5" or 8" to reach max velocity... or more.... what do you get from your set up?

So if the 38 Special is loaded to Above Saami pressure specs, the velocity will be determined by the burn rate of the powder... You might end up with a faster bullet from a Snubby or with the same speed and a Giant Fireball as powder not burned in the barrel burns in the open....


I would look at the online specs... and U tube ballistic tests....