.308 Win newbie

[mikeyr]

Die choices abound depending on your budget, but I'd strongly recommend adding the Redding Instant Indicator die to whatever you end up going with. That one die allows you to dispense with a lot of measurement devices, and it's very easy to set up and use

There you go, complicating matters and making things more expensive with things I have never heard of. I already went with Redding competition dies and now you suggest this too

Ok, a quick youtube hunt convinced me that this is a good thing since I have no idea what I am doing on rifle rounds and since the competition dies have not shipped yet from midway, I have added this.

[liber]

Slow down before you buy ever gadget.

I'd make sure you have a decent set of calipers before buying all that instant indicating chatchkas...

[bazineta]

Oh come now, having an excuse to buy gadgets is half the reason we do this. You're going to like those Redding dies; mine give me a smile every time I use 'em. It's nice to use gear made by people who clearly want to make the best thing they possibly can.

[John Browning]

I finally broke down and bought a centricity gauge. What I found is that runout with properly set RCBS small base dies is the same as benchrest dies that cost three times as much.

What you need:

Small base dies if you are loading for semi auto rifles.

A case gauge to make sure your brass will chamber but also to check you are not over working the brass.

A case trimmer to trim brass to length.

I like BLC-2 because it meters so well. I stick to 150gr bullets in the .308 for plinking and use 168/175 for accuracy.

I do my brass prep separately from loading. I will size, trim and hand prime before I send it through my progressive. That makes things much easier.

[Wrangler John]

After 50+ years of handloading, I have every tool possible on hand, even multiples of different brands. I had never loaded .308 Winchester until late last year when I swapped a .308 Winchester Pac-Nor barrel on my swap barrel Remington 700 with interchangeable accessories. Just for fun, and to see what would result, I bought a set of LEE .308 Winchester dies. The set included a full length size die, a seating die, a Factory Crimp Die, a standard shell holder and a cute little yellow powder dipper. The powder dipper is a throw back to LEE's original LEE Loader. The die set was incredibly inexpensive.

Then I selected a really off-the-wall specialty bullet, Barnes 150 grain, MPG (Multi-Purpose Green) jacketed bullet. These are super-duper frangible bullets, just big Varmint Grenades with a cannelure. Loaded them up in new Nosler cases with IMR 4064, Varget and TAC powders. One IMR 4064 load went well under .5" for 10 shots at 100 yards. Varget and TAC also produced very good loads.

So, don't discount LEE Dies, I saved myself a bunch as I usually search out Redding competition dies, and run up my credit card balance to high orbit.

[pacrat]

After 50+ years of handloading, I have every tool possible on hand, even multiples of different brands. I had never loaded .308 Winchester until late last year when I swapped a .308 Winchester Pac-Nor barrel on my swap barrel Remington 700 with interchangeable accessories. Just for fun, and to see what would result, I bought a set of LEE .308 Winchester dies. The set included a full length size die, a seating die, a Factory Crimp Die, a standard shell holder and a cute little yellow powder dipper. The powder dipper is a throw back to LEE's original LEE Loader. The die set was incredibly inexpensive.

Then I selected a really off-the-wall specialty bullet, Barnes 150 grain, MPG (Multi-Purpose Green) jacketed bullet. These are super-duper frangible bullets, just big Varmint Grenades with a cannelure. Loaded them up in new Nosler cases with IMR 4064, Varget and TAC powders. One IMR 4064 load went well under .5" for 10 shots at 100 yards. Varget and TAC also produced very good loads.

So, don't discount LEE Dies, I saved myself a bunch as I usually search out Redding competition dies, and run up my credit card balance to high orbit.

And for a few bucks more, you could have gotten the "Deluxe" set. It would have included the Collect Neck Sizer also. Which "may" have shrunk your groups a bit more. And still been $200 less than the Redding Competition die set.

[mikeyr]

Slow down before you buy ever gadget.

you sound like my wife

I'd make sure you have a decent set of calipers before buying all that instant indicating chatchkas...

Many calipers, both good ones by the lathe and not so good ones but still perfectly accurate on the reloading bench.

The LGS made a comment today after work that I question, I tend to trust him but it threw me for a loop. I am going to buy loaded ammo and shoot that to get my brass, that will give me a chance to shoot it right away and get used to it and then build ammo to match what I got from the factory ammo. He said if since I have only one 308, I won't even need to resize them, they will be fire formed in my rifle, just deprime, prime, throw powder in and put the bullet on, nothing else needed. Maybe after a few firings, I might have to trim he said...that sounds all wrong, doesn't it ? He said I only needed to worry about all the other work if I was owned several 308's.

I tend to follow what my reloading books say however.

[pacrat]

Some of the worst firearms advice ever given is by counter monkeys in LGS.

I won't even need to resize them, they will be fire formed in my rifle, just deprime, prime, throw powder in and put the bullet on, nothing else needed. Maybe after a few firings, I might have to trim he said...that sounds all wrong, doesn't it ? He said I only needed to worry about all the other work if I was owned several 308's.

I tend to follow what my reloading books say however.

As to the underlined, you were prudent to doubt what he told you. Because he was only partially right. If loading a given batch of cases that have already been fireformed to your chamber. You STILL have to neck size the cases. Or they won't hold bullets.

If loading for more than one rifle in same caliber. And you want to use same reloading die setup. You have to either FL size, or at least partial FL size cases to fit the tightest chamber between the rifles.

Following manuals is always a prudent starting point. But even then there are simple things that just don't apply to all circumstances.

COAL? Are asked here often. But the proper COAL for a given rifle/load can only be determined by the given rifle/load. Just to damn many variables for any book to cover all contingencies.

JM2c

[liber]

you sound like my wife

Not trying to, but it just seems if you listen to everyone and buy everything mentioned on calguns, you'll be in for a shop full of gadgets.

Many calipers, both good ones by the lathe and not so good ones but still perfectly accurate on the reloading bench.

I'd say with a set of dies you have what you need.

He said if since I have only one 308, I won't even need to resize them, they will be fire formed in my rifle, just deprime, prime, throw powder in and put the bullet on, nothing else needed.
...
I tend to follow what my reloading books say however.

Good idea on following what your reloading books say, cause the only way that would work is if your chamber is exactly the diameter of your bullet plus the thickness of your case on each side. IOW, there's probably not a snowball's chance in hell that it is. That is some of the worst advice I've heard given for reloading.

If you're shooting in a semi-automatic you will want to FL size about .001"-.002' at minimum, that will bring down the size of the neck. You can go overboard and start with neck sizing, just as you can with a lot of other stuff. All depends what your goal is.

BTW, your plan is not bad in buying brass that you will reload, but get decent brass either way. You can get once fired match grade brass at a reasonable price, and it could even pay to buy new Lapua brass depending on what type of rifle you're shooting it in. Once fired match 308 brass comes up on calguns from time to time in the Private Reloading Sales of this forum.

[Metal God]

The Redding Instant Indicator die seems cool but if it were me , I'd buy a set of competition shell holders http://www.midwayusa.com/product/525...ngfield-45-acp before the Instant indicator . I have found when used correctly . The competition shell holders size cases pretty darn consistent . I only need to check the first 5 or 10 cases for correct size . If they are correct . They all will be pretty darn close to those tested . I find measuring every case for "case head space " is not needed for the type of shooting I do . The shell holders remove all press deflection resulting in very consistently sized cases .

Really the Redding Instant Indicator die or the competition shell holders are getting into the more advanced reloading areas . Neither are really needed to load good ammo . Both are very helpful when shooting for little tiny groups or competition .

[CGT80]

trailboss and win 231 are great for 30 cal rifles, as well as red dot, bullseye, herco, and a number of other shotgun and pistol powders. IMR 4895 has been the go to powder in my family for 243 and 30-06 and in 223, by my grandfather. I have also used IMR 4759.

It all depends on what you want to do and how cheap you want to do it. I am not sure if your rifle is a semi auto, but if it is, then reduced loads probably won't cycle it.

Data is easy to find for full power loads with jwords. If you have any desire for soft loads, that trailboss powder works great under jacketed or lead bullets, but win 231, red dot, or other fast powders will be more economical. The advantage to trail boss is that you can't use too much, but it is not a cheap powder and it makes for very low velocities. I tried it in a 30-06 with a 150 grain jacketed bullet and got around 1,000 fps. 13.0 grains of red dot got me 1200-1300 fps and it was a real nice light load.

For a little softer load that still has real power, you can look up the youth loads from IMR. IMR 4895 can be reduced. Look up the data, but to do it you had to take a full power max load and multiply that by 60 or 70 percent. In the 30-06 it put me at 30.0 grains for 4895 and it just took the edge off the recoil, in a bolt gun.

Cast boolits can be very accurate, but can not be pushed as fast as jacketed and don't need pushed that fast for accuracy. Plated or moly coated lead bullets can be used as well. 30 cal rifles are very versatile. The point of aim/point of impact will vary based on your load, and the light and mid loads can be quite a ways off from full power. Sometimes you can find a light load that works for short range without changing your sights.


I do my rifle loading on a 550 and 650. The first trip through the press is just to size the brass, after spraying dillon lube (lanoline and alcohol) on the brass. It then gets tumbled in corn cob and is ready for primer pocket swaging, if needed, and trimming. Trimming sucks!!! I use CTS trimmers that work like an electric pencil sharpener, and they go on a motorized base that I made. It is a poor man's girarud (spelling). I have an electric lyman lathe style trimmer, but they are still a pain. The dillon press mounted trimmer would be great, if I had unlimited funds.

Pretty much any dies will get you started. Redding dies are nice and I have them for my 460 mag revolver. For rifles, I use RCBS and dillon. My rifle shooting does not consist of shooting tiny groups. plinking, 3 gun, and lever action silhouette (30-30 180 grain cast boolit with no gas check, over 9.6 grains of herco shotgun powder @1300 fps. at a cost of around 7 cents per round) are my games.

I FL size my rifle brass.

Reloading for any firearm can be anything from a very simple process that just produces bulk ammo where function is most important and accuracy doesn't have to be real tight, to a complex process to make match grade ammo that is fed in a rail gun where the shooter doesn't even hold onto the rifle.

[mikeyr]

quick question..my plans have changed since I got brass for xmas, I was going to buy some ammo, shoot it and reload it but I got brass.

I have a 1979 book that says Min 43.0, Max 47.0 for all 150gr bullets
I have Hornady 9th edition that says Min 38.4 Max 44.9 for 150 gr. bullet
I have a 2013 Hornady book that says Min 43.0 Max 47.5 for a 155gr HPBT
and from IMR's website Min 42.9 Max 46.7 for a 150 NOS e-tip

I am shooing a 150gr HPBT Sierra Matchking, trying to figure out the load to start with. I was going to start with 43.0 of 4064 since that is the minimum of 3 of my 4 sources and ladder up, should I start lower ?

My loads were going to be 43gr, 44gr 44.5, 45 and work up in .2 gr's until 46gr's since the max on 3 of my 4 sources are 47, I was going to stop at 46. BUT all of that is above the Hornady 9th edition book, its the one that is the lowest of all.

The other 2 books and IMR website are all within a few tenths

I didn't know better and bought the 150gr HPBT bullets, all the books have a 155gr HPBT which is what I will buy next time.

and finally, this website http://www.6mmbr.citymaker.com/f/Sierra308Win.pdf has my specific bullet and power at 39.1 and 45.5, but its not a "official" powder or bullet website.

I am going to start at 40 I guess...any suggestions ?

3 hours until I pick up my rifle, want to make ammo now

[liber]

I have a 1979 book that says Min 43.0, Max 47.0 for all 150gr bullets
I have Hornady 9th edition that says Min 38.4 Max 44.9 for 150 gr. bullet
I have a 2013 Hornady book that says Min 43.0 Max 47.5 for a 155gr HPBT
and from IMR's website Min 42.9 Max 46.7 for a 150 NOS e-tip

I have heard that Hornady lowered their loads in recent books for legal reasons. I don't know if that applies here or not.

For 150 gr., Speer #14 is showing Min. 43 and Max 47 for both 4064 and Min 41 and Max 45 for 4895.

I am shooing a 150gr HPBT Sierra Matchking, trying to figure out the load to start with. I was going to start with 43.0 of 4064 since that is the minimum of 3 of my 4 sources and ladder up, should I start lower ?

That sounds like a good plan.

My loads were going to be 43gr, 44gr 44.5, 45 and work up in .2 gr's until 46gr's since the max on 3 of my 4 sources are 47, I was going to stop at 46. BUT all of that is above the Hornady 9th edition book, its the one that is the lowest of all.

As I said, Hornady is conservative in recent issues. I have the 9th edition also.

I didn't know better and bought the 150gr HPBT bullets, all the books have a 155gr HPBT which is what I will buy next time.

That shouldn't matter. In Hornady they mix different weight bullets for the same load. As an example they have several 150 gr bullets with a 155 Amax for 308. They mix 165s and 168s...etc...I don't see any 155 HPBT in Hornady (308 or 7.62x51 NATO), or in Speer, so not sure where you see those 155 gr HPBTs.

3 hours until I pick up my rifle, want to make ammo now

You plan seems sound. Start low and work your way up.

[Metal God]

Mike you just showed one of the reasons multiple sources are your friend . I'd throw out the outlying data and go with the others . I'm not sure why hornady does this . My theory is they have to many bullets on the same page using the same data . I'm not looking at mine now but I'm sure you will see on the Hornady page 5 to 10 different bullets using the same data . As we all know not all bullets are data interchangeable . My "theory" on Hornady is they use the data for the bullet that handled the least amount of powder . There is likely a flat based long baring surface bullet on that page that can't handle the same load as the A-Max or other bullets on that page . So they just use the data for the bullet that takes the least amount of powder and use it for all the bullets in that weight class .

[mikeyr]

Well everything went bang...actually BANG, that is one loud toy.

I really didn't notice a difference on accuracy between 42gr's and 43gr's, seemed about the same, I also could not feel a difference on recoil. Cases and primers looked fine after firing so I will play with that range, make a proper ladder and try and get to be a better shot.

I went shooting with 30 rounds at the 100yard range on a 12" reactive target, never hit the bulls eye but got close, 28 of my rounds hit the 12" target and the other 2 were only an inch out of the target. I am ok with that for a first time at 100 yards and no scope.

making more ammo for another trip to the range

Thanks for the help