How to minimize runout?

[rosenbaumtravis]

A seating die does not have case body support, then there is the discovery by reloaders the amount of effort required to seat a bullet can be measured with a small hydronic press. The press does not measure tension, I do not have to get used to that ideal because I have never used tensions when seating bullets.

I made a bullet seater without a die body.


rosenbaumtravis, you said the cases do not have run-our before seating the bullet. You have no ideal how much pressure is required to seat the bullet and you do not know if the run out is caused misalignment between the case neck and bullet when seating.

F. Guffey

My seating die holds the case in line with the bullet under spring tension. It has a sliding sleave that supports the case. I dont know the exact amount of pressure required to seat, but it is more than normal. Not smooth it hangs up on the grooves on the bullet.

[LynnJr]

Frank
And then there was the reloader who talked of Grip/Hold so I called Lester Bruno and Gary Ocock both Hall Of Fame Members World Record Holders and asked them about a seating die that measured in Grips/Holds and they said it doesn't exist.

[LynnJr]

Travis
Get a PMA Tool or K-M neck Turner. You don't need a "Pumpkin" neck Turner unless you really plan on accuracy for the long haul.

Any neck Turner with a round cutter should be avoided because it will only cut on a single point where a flat cutter will cut it entire length. The round cutters tend to leave chatter unless you can feed them very smoothly.
The key to perfect necks is not allowing the tool to get hot. If you touch it to your lip it should not feel warm. If it feels warm the body will expand and give you inconsistent thicknesses.
Get yourself a bowl and fill it with rubbing alcohol and ice cubes and after each neck drop it back into the bowl.
I use a cordless drill to turn the cases and I keep a piece of 0000 steel wool in the ice alcohol mixture.
Once I have expanded my neck on the expandiron I lube the inside of the neck a second time with Imperial Sizing Die Wax on a cotton tipped applicator or Q-tip.
Once you turn your neck remove the tool grab the steel wool and run it over the neck while spinning the case with the drill.
And yes you will do every piece of brass so the necks are all the same thickness and consistent.
If your stripping copper off of the bullets your neck tension is too tight or you need a better chamfer on the case mouths.
I have no clue what hydronics are.

[rosenbaumtravis]

I will order thr recomended neck turner and give it a shot. Ive been wanting to do this anyway, i just hope it solve the issue with this specific bullet.

I have a vld chamfer tool that works great, but still get a little jacket material built up on the case mouth after seating. This is why I think my problem is caused by excessive neck tension. When i turn them it should lower the neck tension and even the neck thickness.

I believe the op is referring to some sort of hydraulic press that measures seating/sizing force? Not sure and havent seen a hydraulic press for reloading.

Thanks again for your input.

[eric n]

Do you have a micrometer? If so, what does the tsx measure vs smk?

[LynnJr]

The SMK have a very nice boattail that allows the bullet to get started very easily into the neck.
The Barnes bullets I have don't compare to the Sierras in terms of boattail.
The VLD tool is what I use to chamfer so I am also leaning towards too much neck tension.
Are you using bushing dies or standard dies with a expander ball.

[bsumoba]

While we're on the topic of neck turning, I just expanded 400+ pieces of 6.5x284 brass to 7mm and I'm deciding on whether to neck turn these or not since I never had issues with runout with non-neck turned brass and I still have about 4-5K of neck clearance in the chamber.

[fguffey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rMBP7I6F30

Notice the spread between the first and second bullet seated. Something like from 30 pounds to 55+ pounds. Seating bullets by the pound is the only way I have know. With the spread I can only imagine therapy classes are not far behind.

F. Guffey

[LynnJr]

Was he measuring them in Holds/grips?
His technique of stopping and restarting accounted for most of his error and you can put a gauge on just about any press without the need for a hydraulic ram.

[rosenbaumtravis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rMBP7I6F30

Notice the spread between the first and second bullet seated. Something like from 30 pounds to 55+ pounds. Seating bullets by the pound is the only way I have know. With the spread I can only imagine therapy classes are not far behind.

F. Guffey

Thats new to me...reloading is making me go crazy. Its actually my way of winding down after all of lifes stresses. Call it my own personal therapy.

[rosenbaumtravis]

The SMK have a very nice boattail that allows the bullet to get started very easily into the neck.
The Barnes bullets I have don't compare to the Sierras in terms of boattail.
The VLD tool is what I use to chamfer so I am also leaning towards too much neck tension.
Are you using bushing dies or standard dies with a expander ball.

Standard full length with expander, but my case necks have less than .001 runout.

[eric n]

A Lyman m die might get you squared away on the cheap

[fguffey]

Standard full length with expander, but my case necks have less than .001 runout.

Rosenbaumtravis, it has not been that long ago when reloaders claimed they honed the necks of their sizing dies to reduce the amount of neck sizing, before that they claimed they ordered different size expander plugs. Long before that smiths made reamers, cut their chambers and made the dies.

They did it, we are still talking about it.

F. Guffey

[huckberry668]

Float your dies. Floating dies allow room and angle for the bullet and case to align properly.

I modified my d550 tool heads to float the dies. None of my semi progressively loaded rifle rounds have more than .003" runout. Mixed headstamp, no turned necks.

Check out whiddengunworks.com. or you can make your own with a drill and some roll pins.

[kmullins]

Wilson seating dies have given me the best results when trying to eliminate runout.

Usually you only neck turn if you have a chamber that requires you to do so.