Question on "Fire Formed" Brass

[JMP]

And, then there are people living in the 21th century. They wanted to shoot 30 cal, but they got a bore that is to loose for .308 bullets. They took the barrel off and threw it in the trash. That was the fix. Nobody really makes .311 bullets worth beans.

[LynnJr]

fguffey
Donald fs, I can not get my 308 W/7.62X51 cases to agree on a capacity/volume , I have at least 12 different 308 w/7.62x51 cases, it is a given the 308 powder column in the 308 W is shorter and larger in diameter than the powder column of the 30/06 but with a 150 grain bullet, the 30/06 has trouble keeping up with the 308 W.

My 308 W cases I have a variance in powder column length of .060 thousands + meaning the case head on some is .200 thick, others are .260 thousands thick. Then there is the 'weigh the cases', that method does not work, sounds great when repeated over and over etc.. But when looking for difference it is necessary to look for the brass. I have 30/06 cases with a case head thickness of .200, I have 30/06 cases with case head thickness of .260, the heaviest of the two is not the case with the case head thickness of .260, it is is the lighter of the two, the heaver case with the .200 case head thickness has a thick/heavier wall, then it gets down to the difference of volume, it is never considered the powder column length and diameter is a factor, remember the 30/06 powder column is longer and smaller than the powder column of the 308, the 308 powder column is larger in diameter and shorter than the 30/06 powder column, again, the 30/06 has trouble keeping up with the 308 with 150 grain bullets.

The 7.65x53 BM (Argentine) powder column is longer and smaller in diameter than the 308 W (7.62x51 NATO) and was developed 110+ years ago for a different time and rifle.

To be honest, I believe you knew the answer before you ask the question, the 7.65x53 BM case length from the head of the case to it's shoulder is longer by .218 longer than the 308 when measured from the head of the case to it's shoulder, but the case diameter for the 308 is larger.

Again there are those that have fired 308 W ammo in a 30/06 chamber and extracted 30/06 cases without necks, so much for the firing pin driving the case forward, had the case been driven forward, the neck would have not changed in length and all the stretching and forming would have occurred between the shoulder and case head. And I have fired 8mm57 ammo in a 8mm06 chamber, same thing, the cases were extracted as 8mm06 cases with short necks.

F. Guffey

[JMP]

fguffey
Donald fs, I can not get my 308 W/7.62X51 cases to agree on a capacity/volume , I have at least 12 different 308 w/7.62x51 cases, it is a given the 308 powder column in the 308 W is shorter and larger in diameter than the powder column of the 30/06 but with a 150 grain bullet, the 30/06 has trouble keeping up with the 308 W.

My 308 W cases I have a variance in powder column length of .060 thousands + meaning the case head on some is .200 thick, others are .260 thousands thick. Then there is the 'weigh the cases', that method does not work, sounds great when repeated over and over etc.. But when looking for difference it is necessary to look for the brass. I have 30/06 cases with a case head thickness of .200, I have 30/06 cases with case head thickness of .260, the heaviest of the two is not the case with the case head thickness of .260, it is is the lighter of the two, the heaver case with the .200 case head thickness has a thick/heavier wall, then it gets down to the difference of volume, it is never considered the powder column length and diameter is a factor, remember the 30/06 powder column is longer and smaller than the powder column of the 308, the 308 powder column is larger in diameter and shorter than the 30/06 powder column, again, the 30/06 has trouble keeping up with the 308 with 150 grain bullets.

The 7.65x53 BM (Argentine) powder column is longer and smaller in diameter than the 308 W (7.62x51 NATO) and was developed 110+ years ago for a different time and rifle.

To be honest, I believe you knew the answer before you ask the question, the 7.65x53 BM case length from the head of the case to it's shoulder is longer by .218 longer than the 308 when measured from the head of the case to it's shoulder, but the case diameter for the 308 is larger.

Again there are those that have fired 308 W ammo in a 30/06 chamber and extracted 30/06 cases without necks, so much for the firing pin driving the case forward, had the case been driven forward, the neck would have not changed in length and all the stretching and forming would have occurred between the shoulder and case head. And I have fired 8mm57 ammo in a 8mm06 chamber, same thing, the cases were extracted as 8mm06 cases with short necks.

F. Guffey

I have no clue about what you are talking about here.

[pacrat]

Cerro-Safe has many viable uses in the shooting sports. Determining headspace or adjusting sizing dies are just not among them.

I have heard that before, I do not agree. It depends on who is casting the chamber.

F. Guffey

No amount of delusional McGuffster magic will allow anyone to measure the breech end of a Cerro-Safe casting to within .001" for headspace. Or use that non existant precise measurement for die adjusting.

No one, who has ever even seen a Cerro_Safe chamber casting would consider making such a claim. Let alone anyone who has actually made such castings.



YOUR MEDS..................take them

[fguffey]

No amount of delusional McGuffster magic will allow anyone to measure the breech end of a Cerro-Safe casting to within .001" for headspace. Or use that non existent precise measurement for die adjusting.

No one, who has ever even seen a Cerro_Safe chamber casting would consider making such a claim. Let alone anyone who has actually made such castings.

I was disappointed with the conduct of members on another forum. A shooter ask the question about casting chambers. No one had anything to offer, that did not entitle the prolific responders to insult the man asking the question.

I contacted him off line with email and phone numbers, he called, first he appreciated my effort in responding to the insults, nothing he said warranted being approached in a manner rather rude. Anyhow, he is now making chamber case of all his rifles, complete chamber cast.

He has called on other matters concerning reloading and has offered insight on other matters. The shooter was no slouch when shooting and or reloading.

F. Guffey

[LynnJr]

Frank
How well do you and your rifles shoot?

[ar15barrels]

No amount of delusional McGuffster magic will allow anyone to measure the breech end of a Cerro-Safe casting to within .001" for headspace.

I agree.
Cerrosafe is best used for measuring chamber DIAMETERS, not case body LENGTHS.

[fguffey]

I agree.
Cerrosafe is best used for measuring chamber DIAMETERS, not case body LENGTHS.

"Cerrosafe is best used for measuring chamber DIAMETERS"

Best used? In a few minutes I gave the shooter/reloader directions for casting the chamber diameter and length. He was not puffed with conceit or arrogance, he wanted to know how to cast a chamber. He had no clue anyone could caste a completer chamber. He did have a little trouble casting the chamber in his M1 Garand.

F. Guffey

[LynnJr]

FGuffey
Frank tell us how you do it please and the biggest problem with your posts is that they are incomplete and never answer any questions.
Please keep that in mind when you post your answer.

[ar15barrels]

"Cerrosafe is best used for measuring chamber DIAMETERS"

Best used?

Yes.
Cerrosafe is FAR BETTER at measuring chamber diameters at various points than it is at determining the body length from the shoulder to the base of the cartridge.
This has to do with the fact that it is poured into the chamber with an OPEN breech and that there is no way to determine WHERE the breech face would be located from the casting.
Anyone who has ever cast a chamber with cerrosafe would understand this.

[fguffey]

Yes.
Cerrosafe is FAR BETTER at measuring chamber diameters at various points than it is at determining the body length from the shoulder to the base of the cartridge.

I will disagree, when it comes to measuring anything that has to do with the chamber reloaders are challenged.

Anyone who has ever cast a chamber with cerrosafe would understand this.

Then there is 'THAT' risk. Reloaders setting at there keyboards teetering on the edge of becoming belligerent and wildly indignant about everything.

In the conversation I explained to the shooter I could measure the length of a chamber three different ways without a head space gage. He wanted to measure length and diameter. In 30 minutes I had him well on his way. He was polite and he was a good listener.

I suggested there were methods and techniques that required tools made in a machine shop. For the most part the tools exist but are not used by reloaders.

F. Guffey

[LynnJr]

Randall you are wasting your time on the Guffer. He thinks he can make tooling nobody else can make and he is the only one on earth who can measure a chamber.
Most benchrest shooters are machinist who love extreme Precision and when the Guffster went on 6mmbr.com and Benchrest Central the tool and die makers who live there ate him alive.
He now comes here and never answers a single question.
I was told he doesn't know and makes crazy generalizations to see if people will help him out. I guess it is his way of asking a question.
Look back and you will quickly see he doesn't answer questions you now know why.
If you press him for a actual answer he will post you are rude or out to get him.
I am on about 22 message boards and this is the general consensus.
On a brighter note the Guffer just learned that cerrosafe is not a good choice for measuring chamber length.

[J-cat]

Allow me to interject.

What if Fguffey took the cerrosafe casting and placed it in a lathe and removed the excess off the top until it chambered and the bolt closed tight?

But I like your way better.

[ar15barrels]

What if Fguffey took the cerrosafe casting and placed it in a lathe and removed the excess off the top until it chambered and the bolt closed tight?

He could make it any length he wanted.
That's not a measurement because a measurement would be only ONE dimension.

That's making a gauge.
Making a gauge and taking a measurement are distinctively different.

[71MUSTY]

Geez

All the OP wants to do is shoot his rifle, not listen to the reloaders version of World War III.


I ran into the same sort of fights when I started asking about reloading for my RB5.

Sometimes you guys get way to caught up in out barking each other and forget all about helping out us amateurs who come here looking for help.