LWRC KABOOM!

[Carcassonne]

Yes, and that is why AR15 out of battery slamfire reports are exceeding rare. I found one credible one on the web, and I have a Security Guard shooting bud who claims to have seen one. He works at a Federal Facility that requires their Guards to regularly shoot and train. He said with full auto M4's, firing federal gold medal match 223, an out of battery slamfire occurred. Bud is at least a Master class shooter and has been shooting for decades so his observations have credibility. An out of battery slamfire on a AR15 action is most likely to be caused by an extra sensitive primers (they exist) or something on the bolt face. Firing pins however, are retracted behind the bolt face until cam down. I don't see how an AR15 action can have a firing pin initiated out of battery slamfire unless some dimension is out of spec.

I have seen pieces of brass, especially primer anvils, stuck in the firing pin hole of some guns (rifles and pistols). If a piece of brass is lodged in the hole it acts as a protruding firing pine. This is always the result of reloads with worn/loose primer pockets.
Sometimes the gun (*) will slam fire 1, 2, or 3 times, then the brass piece dislodges and blows out the ejection port. The gun stops firing and the shooter can't find anything wrong with the gun.

(*) An AR wouldn't slam fire 2 or more times, since the cartridge would be detonated before the bolt is closed, and the ruptured shell would prevent another round from cambering. This type of slam-fire is more prevalent in blow-back sub-machine guns or pistols.

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[kdsd731]

I don't think you are understanding the pictures.
The case was COMPLETELY chambered.
The area that expanded to look like a belt is the unsupported part of the case which is strong enough to contain normal operating pressures without expanding.
What you are seeing is a case that was exposed to abnormally high pressures and expanded to the limits of the surrounding metal.

Thank you. So since I know it wasn't over charged due to being on a progressive and not seeing an obvious double charge is it pretty much a certainty then that it most likely bullet set back due to too light of a crimp?

[freebug]

Did you case gauge before fully reloading? To me it seems that the round was out of spec and ruptured because of this.





When reloading, case gauge each and EVERY shell. I do this at every step.

[JagerDog]

Thank you. So since I know it wasn't over charged due to being on a progressive and not seeing an obvious double charge is it pretty much a certainty then that it most likely bullet set back due to too light of a crimp?

Overcharge not ruled out. See "powder bridging" above.

But bullet setback can indeed create these kind of pressures. It's not so much the reduced case volume, but rather the bullet not aligning with the bore.

[kdsd731]

Overcharge not ruled out. See "powder bridging" above.

But bullet setback can indeed create these kind of pressures. It's not so much the reduced case volume, but rather the bullet not aligning with the bore.

I don't picture powder bridging being the cause because he was doing a nice slow smooth pace on the press and this lnl powder measure has had a lot of reloading under its belt (someone mentioned it being more likely if new). But I'm really thinking the crimp was too light and that bullet slid back. But I guess there is no way to really know.

[fguffey]

But I guess there is no way to really know.

I have never been involved in anything that failed that miserable. I never took the CYA course, that leaves me with 'FANTASTIC!'.

I do not remember anyone making such a big effort in denying the obvious.

There was a reloader that hurt his hand when primes went off in a primer tube. Seems the press was A Dillon, and the primer tube was folded.

F. Guffey

[JTROKS]

Mix head stamp brass loaded near max or over max of published data. Not sure if the bullet used creates more pressure, but I'm sure the variation in pressure with those loads fluctuates depending on the case. I used to believe there is some room for safety with published data. Back in my younger years I figured that max load is safe as I did load my practice rounds with mix head stamp brass. In my experience a blown primer or severely flattened primer were the results. No blown up gun - knocking on wood, but digging that loose primer wedge between parts of the lower receiver is a PITA. I carried one of those long slender nose hemostat and a mechanic's pick to get those loose primers out of there. I've only have to take the hammer and trigger off once.

Next time you reload if the published data start is 22 with max load of 25.3, load 23.5 if using range pickup/mix head stamp brass.

[bruce381]

out of battery fire that's why case head is exspanded so much will NOT exspand like that is in the chamber

[J-cat]

Can you explain the mechanism of an out of battery discharge?

[kdsd731]

I have never been involved in anything that failed that miserable. I never took the CYA course, that leaves me with 'FANTASTIC!'.

I do not remember anyone making such a big effort in denying the obvious.
F. Guffey

You're annoying. You've made your point. Now move on.
I have already stated that I believe the bullet set back. Where's the denying? I'm trying to figure this out and that's only possible if I can state the things I know.
And according to your response that you haven't had anything fail that miserably. That says that you have had some failures, just not as catastrophic. And per your previous response that if a mistake had ever been made, you should hang up your equipment as well.

Everyone can make a mistake. But you should learn from it to prevent it from happening again.

I'm sure there are many other reloaders that have had failures that could have been prevented.

[bfoosh006]

Or, maybe a 62gr bullet found it's way in there.

I am sure his comment meant "Was there a 62gr bullet in with all the other 55gr's .. from the manufacturer.

This... or did you have a fired case bust in half , or just the neck came off.. the next round jammed into it... and you had an out of battery fire ?

Maybe a slam fire ?

[bfoosh006]

I'm kinda interested in the front half of the case. It appears to be quite clean for not being completely chambered. It almost looks like it could of been stuffed into the back of a torn case from a case head separation.

This.. also.

[gau17]

As mentioned in a previous post, look at the case head...it looks like a belted case now. It looks like out of battery ignition which resulted in case head separation. Then, the ejector ripped the already cracked case head during extraction.
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I'm going to say this ^^^^. If the round went off while it was fully seated in the chamber you will not get that belted look.

[JTROKS]

If it was a slam fire did the shooter rememberi pulling the trigger? An out of battery Slam fire will be a normal bang then a quick kaboom.

[J-cat]

Again, what causes an out of battery discharge on an AR from a name brand like LWRC when the design is such that the firing pin cannot protrude past the breech face until the bolt rotates and locks?