Long range load

[evol ways]

I went out and tried to gather some dope on my current load out to 1k this weekend. Well safe to say it's starting to fall flat out to 1k. Load is currently using the 175SMK, 44.0gr of varget, hornaday match brass with a GMM 210M primer loaded to 2.160 base to ogive. According to the strelok it's giving me a muzzle Velocity of 2566fps according to the calibration of actual mils it took to get to 1k.

I was written a nice note on my target that at 1k my shots were coming in really slow. This got me thinking as to how could I come up with the best load to shoot out to 1k?

I have been thinking on trying out the new tipped .175 with their better BC's or even the 185 juggernauts. If I do a OCW test it would just give me a good idea as to what charge weight my rifle shoots good at but doesn't mean I might get the MV I want.

Realistically what MV is ideal for 1k? One of the NCPPRC guys told me that 2700fps was good enough.

By the way, I just loaded up a few different charge weights and picked the one that grouped tightest at 100yards. No other testing other than that was done to fine tune my load. Loading is all new to me so aside from that I haven't experimented with anything else. Just an FYI on my reloading background.

Any and all helpful information is appreciated.

[highpower790]

Op what rifle are you using?A bolt gun Im sure of,nobody shoots a semi long range except for me.
My muzzle velocity with a 22" barrel is right at 2600fps and with 175/178 bullets with 42-43gr of Varget.

[bsumoba]

I think 2600 fps is minimum for 1K. my 20" semi-auto LR-308 goes about this speed with 175gr SMK and it gets to 1K fine. it is slowing down quite a bit after 1K though.

did you check your come ups on your scope and is it right on with Strelok? if you had to adjust higher, then chances are your muzzle velocity is lower than you think.

[ExtremeX]

What length barrel are you working with OP?

With my rifle it’s a fight between something that groups VERY well, and something that has the velocity for 1k shooting but the groups opens up.

[FromTheGrave]

What length barrel are you working with OP?

Just wondering why you feel that way?

Why not just find the accuracy node at the velocity that you need to achieve (or more)?

[ExtremeX]

Just wondering why you feel that way?

Why not just find the accuracy node at the velocity that you need to achieve (or more)?

It doesn’t matter how I feel, I just went with the “better load” … Ill elaborate…

I am not willing to sacrifice a load that has better SD/ES figures and tighter groups just to get something that moves faster. Pushing up the velocity increases my SD/ES, which is not what you want, even if it groups well at closer distances if LR ammo is the goal. To add insult it also groups worse than the slower charge.

The larger ES/SD will essentially make for less consistent ammo for distance shooting. I am about as fast as I can go until I gets a lot worse.

Unfortunately for me with a 20” barrel gives me an average velocity of 2530 FPS. My round goes transonic around 880 yards (3200 DA / 76F), it’s just not a 1k yard setup as it sits, but I still like to throw em out there just for fun. Anything 600 yards and in I am a real happy camper with the results of this setup.

My load: 308 Win, Fire formed and neck sized, 168gr Amax, 41.5gr H4895, 2.830 COAL, CCI LRP.

If I bump up the charge to get more velocity and ignore SD/ES, I still have a setup that struggles at 1k and my average 100 yard groups end up being in the 3/4 to 1 MOA+

[evol ways]

Bryan, I did. That's how I came up with the 2560MV. That was based on actual come up. When I originally put the info into Strelok it had told me my come up was 10.5mils but in reality it was 11.1mils. That day I met you at the 3x20 1k match was the first time taking the rifle out to 1k.

Extreme, as for the rifle, I'm shooting a M24 1:11.25", 24 inch barrel. Chambered by Marc over at Spartan.

I figured I needed some higher velocity to be a a bit more effective out to 1k with the crazy Sac Valley wind. Now with out having a chrono, what is the best method for coming up with a load.

[ExtremeX]

Bryan, I did. That's how I came up with the 2560MV. That was based on actual come up. When I originally put the info into Strelok it had told me my come up was 10.5mils but in reality it was 11.1mils. That day I met you at the 3x20 1k match was the first time taking the rifle out to 1k.

Extreme, as for the rifle, I'm shooting a M24 1:11.25", 24 inch barrel. Chambered by Marc over at Spartan.

I figured I needed some higher velocity to be a a bit more effective out to 1k with the crazy Sac Valley wind. Now with out having a chrono, what is the best method for coming up with a load.

Nice rifle… With that barrel length and powder you have some wiggle room with that MV..

I would make a top end ladder from the hottest safe load you have made so far to find your peak pressure area… maybe 1-2 cases per charge, in small increments. Fire them until you see the start of some pressure signs in your brass cases and back it off a little if you wish.

After you find your rifles max you can make another batch of ammo and do some accuracy testing, or another ladder within the top end of chat charge range to see what works best.

I would invest in a chrono, or make friends with someone that has one… more so to understand what the ES/SD of your ammo is than just knowing the velocity.

[ducky_0811]

45 grs of varget has been a solid load for many. I load 41.8 grs 4064 or 42 gr 4895 with the 175 at 2.810 OAL. With your current primer this reproduces the M118 load the military uses out to 1200 yards with semi auto's. It works great for me out of a NM M1a out to 500. I don't have anywhere I can shoot further so... varget is a great powder but there are others as well, 43gr RL15 should also do a fine job. As always, work loads up in your rifle etc etc..

[CK_32]

Bryan, I did. That's how I came up with the 2560MV. That was based on actual come up. When I originally put the info into Strelok it had told me my come up was 10.5mils but in reality it was 11.1mils. That day I met you at the 3x20 1k match was the first time taking the rifle out to 1k.

Extreme, as for the rifle, I'm shooting a M24 1:11.25", 24 inch barrel. Chambered by Marc over at Spartan.

I figured I needed some higher velocity to be a a bit more effective out to 1k with the crazy Sac Valley wind. Now with out having a chrono, what is the best method for coming up with a load.

Shooting a 175 you should be just above super sonic until just past 1100 yards. (1150fps ish range at 1,000)

I shoot the same load as you and in my shoot spot calculators say I should be super sonic with the same MV you post to 1200 before it hits subsonic speeds. Condiotiins and shot will vary of course.

[FromTheGrave]

It doesn’t matter how I feel, I just went with the “better load” … Ill elaborate…

I am not willing to sacrifice a load that has better SD/ES figures and tighter groups just to get something that moves faster. Pushing up the velocity increases my SD/ES, which is not what you want, even if it groups well at closer distances if LR ammo is the goal. To add insult it also groups worse than the slower charge.

The larger ES/SD will essentially make for less consistent ammo for distance shooting. I am about as fast as I can go until I gets a lot worse.

Unfortunately for me with a 20” barrel gives me an average velocity of 2530 FPS. My round goes transonic around 880 yards (3200 DA / 76F), it’s just not a 1k yard setup as it sits, but I still like to throw em out there just for fun. Anything 600 yards and in I am a real happy camper with the results of this setup.

My load: 308 Win, Fire formed and neck sized, 168gr Amax, 41.5gr H4895, 2.830 COAL, CCI LRP.

If I bump up the charge to get more velocity and ignore SD/ES, I still have a setup that struggles at 1k and my average 100 yard groups end up being in the 3/4 to 1 MOA+

OK, fair enough.

Personally, what I meant though, was that if I was looking to achieve a certain velocity, while achieving the same ES/SD, I would be looking into trying different powders, projectiles, brass and maybe even different primers, etc.

Using the best load you achieve between 100-600 yards is great, unless you're looking to develop a 1k load.

btw Can't see your pictures.

OP

2.160" Base to ogive sounds short with a 175gr. SMK.

I'm loading to 2.231" and that puts my OAL at roughly 2.81". I say "roughly" because I find SMK to be all over the place from base to tip. I prefer and have been using the Nosler CC. Find their sizes to be much more consistent.

[JMP]

According to the strelok it's giving me a muzzle Velocity of 2566fps according to the calibration of actual mils it took to get to 1k.

That sounds excessively slow. Are you using the correct BC in your calculator? I do not know Stelok, but if it only allows one value, a common error is for people to use 0.505 as a G1 for the 175 SMK. That's really more for 300 WM velocities and are not realistically attainable in the 308 Win. 0.485 is the more practical BC to use as it's the velocity more appropriate for a 308 to 1km. You may arrive at a higher MV.

There's really no correct MV to get you there, it's simply what works. I'd want 2,700, personally, with a 308. Your load data sounds good as you'd probably not want to go too much higher, but you should continue to increment your charges until your group spreads. With the long barrel life and cheap brass, there's no reason to hold back on 308, IMO.

[FromTheGrave]

That sounds excessively slow. Are you using the correct BC in your calculator? I do not know Stelok, but if it only allows one value, a common error is for people to use 0.505 as a G1 for the 175 SMK. That's really more for 300 WM velocities and are not realistically attainable in the 308 Win. 0.485 is the more practical BC to use as it's the velocity more appropriate for a 308 to 1km. You may arrive at a higher MV.

Interesting. Your quote piqued my interest. Found this on Sierra's site.

Dia.(Inches)
0.308
Weight (Grains)
175
Sectional Density
.264
Ballistic Coefficients and Velocity Ranges
.505 @ 2800 fps and above
.496 between 2800 and 1800 fps
.485 @ 1800 fps and below

Sierra Product Page

[ExtremeX]

That sounds excessively slow. Are you using the correct BC in your calculator? I do not know Stelok, but if it only allows one value, a common error is for people to use 0.505 as a G1 for the 175 SMK. That's really more for 300 WM velocities and are not realistically attainable in the 308 Win. 0.485 is the more practical BC to use as it's the velocity more appropriate for a 308 to 1km. You may arrive at a higher MV.

There's really no correct MV to get you there, it's simply what works. I'd want 2,700, personally, with a 308. Your load data sounds good as you'd probably not want to go too much higher, but you should continue to increment your charges until your group spreads. With the long barrel life and cheap brass, there's no reason to hold back on 308, IMO.

If you have the option, would it be better to just the Litz G7 drag model?

BC 0.243 G7

Edit:
I think you might need Stelok Pro for that... I am using Ballistic AE which includes a library for G7 models.

[JMP]

If you have the option, would it be better to just the Litz G7 drag model?

BC 0.243 G7

Edit:
I think you might need Stelok Pro for that... I am using Ballistic AE which includes a library for G7 models.

For longer distances, the G7 is superior; however, I have found that the libraried results aren't always reliable and some are downright incorrect. I'll try them, and if they work, they work, if not I adjust the parameters in my Kestrel. I prefer to use the calculator in the Kestrel that integrates the conditions with the calculator. The trick is to do a lot of shooting in various conditions to get your Kestrel on the money. Real G7s are hard to get. Lapua's G7s are the only ones I have found to be worth beans. For longer ranges, the calculator is to just get you close, but at 1,000, the elevation should be close. If it is only 2,566, with a 24", there's a problem with the barrel or calculator/inputs. It could also be an incorrect zero. 44gr of Varget should get you above 2,600 as I have never seen that exact load clock below 2,600 in a 24".