Should I anneal? If so, when?

[JMP]

I have never been an annealer as I have never believed that there is much benefit as most brass is annealed at the factory and with little work on the brass, I haven't had any issues from not doing so as it seems like the brass is pretty much junk by the time I'd need to anneal (won't fit a primer any longer). I can see the logic of annealing if you are forming a wildcat with a lot of shoulder/neck change, such as a .223 to .300BLK.

It seems that annealing is becoming more popular, and nifty tools like the Giraud have come available to make the process seem more palatable (see video below).

If you are annealing, how do you know when the brass should be annealed again? Or, is annealing simply a process used for salvaged brass and big wildcat stretching?

I'd like to hear the pros and cons. Obviously, the big con is that it would be a PITA, but with a machine the the Giraud, it doesn't look bad as I have liked all of Doug Giraud's products. The question is whether or not utility is gained from annealing. It's sort of a situation that I do not want to fix what isn't broken. How does one know when annealing is beneficial (if applicable).

[bsumoba]

I try to anneal every firing or every other firing on my competition rifle stuff.

I do not anneal anything for my ARs or pistols.

[JMP]

bsumoba, when you anneal each time do you notice a difference in the performance or any other aspect of your reloading/shooting. I would have guessed an opposite practice of yours as I presume you are using high quality brass such as Lapua when you are competing. Does annealing that frequently help? Or, is it just a matter of ritual?

[liber]

The interesting thing, and this might show my ignorance, but brass anneals the opposite of carbon steel in that typically you're supposed to quench brass in water after heating it for annealing. Interesting that the Giraud annealer seems to let it air cool which I thought is how you harden brass...Seems the case heats in the chamber when it is fired, and then air cools which leaves it hardened. I guess I don't understand this process of annealing brass well enough, but when I've done it in my forge I've quenched in water.

[afrancke]

Brass is work-hardened (from deformation), not from heat treatment or quenching. You are therefore free to air cool or quench in the manner of your choosing.

[kmullins]

The pros are you get more firings on your brass and gives more uniform neck tension.

The cons are its yet ANOTHER step in your reloading process.

[liber]

Brass is work-hardened (from deformation), not from heat treatment or quenching. You are therefore free to air cool or quench in the manner of your choosing.

Thank you for your response. In the past I have quenched and it did anneal it, but I was doing a larger piece...for high carbon I have only annealed in the forge, so quench in oil, heat the oil back up to burn off in the forge and let it cool in ashes.

I know that brass is very different.

That Giraud machine is interesting, first time I've seen it in action...has some similarities with the Dillon, they both seem to draw off Rube Goldberg in a way...LOL

[eric n]

You shoot elr so I assume your es is low and you aren't getting split necks, forget about it. It's a pita you don't have to deal with.
I feel I get more consistent seating (base to ogive)length with freshly annealed brass. I use vlds and am picky about seating to the thou. Neck turning and Annealing are two processes I do not look forward to doing

[JagerDog]

Assuming you keep your rifle brass logged by firings, when you start getting some moth cracks/splits, you can anneal the balance and get some more life out of them. I don't mess with .223 as brass is too available. I've only done torch and pie tin quench. Never seen a need on pistol, though in theory revolver (crimped_ brass could see some benefit.

[liber]

Assuming you keep your rifle brass logged by firings, when you start getting some moth cracks/splits, you can anneal the balance and get some more life out of them.

Here's a question I have that is related to this somewhat, but wouldn't one get more life out of their brass if they used dies that are close to the size of their chamber? IOW, but using Redding dies with a proper bushing for your chamber, wouldn't that get one more life than annealing would? I ask as this would stretch the brass less and give more life, AFAIK.

I ask because brass is so soft anyway, even when hardened. It's not as if brass hardens like tool steel.

[FromTheGrave]

Not speaking from my own experience here but I was under the impression you anneal when you start getting irregular neck tension.

If you are using a set of brass (lapua, LC, etc) count how many firings until you get uneven neck tension and then make annealing 1 firing earlier from that point forward.

[JMP]

The pros are you get more firings on your brass and gives more uniform neck tension.

If you just do a slight turning of the neck to fit your chamber and use a bushing to get your neck tension, why would the annealing process provide more uniform neck tension? Does the hardness of the brass change asymmetrically throughout the process of firing?

You shoot elr so I assume your es is low and you aren't getting split necks, forget about it. It's a pita you don't have to deal with.

Some brass just doesn't seem to split at the necks as the primer pockets can't hold water ahead of this occurring for me. Then, some cases, like 6BR seem to never want to die--I suppose since they are small primer and light. I am only on 6x, and it still feels like new brass.

I think you are right, as I thought, it probably isn't necessary. I wonder why some brass is prone to split. Is this because it's fired out of a rough semi-auto chamber like the HKs, lower quality brass, or just really old salvaged brass?

[JagerDog]

Here's a question I have that is related to this somewhat, but wouldn't one get more life out of their brass if they used dies that are close to the size of their chamber? IOW, but using Redding dies with a proper bushing for your chamber, wouldn't that get one more life than annealing would? I ask as this would stretch the brass less and give more life, AFAIK.

I ask because brass is so soft anyway, even when hardened. It's not as if brass hardens like tool steel.

Minimal sizing, neck sizing only, etc. all extend case life.

It doesn't have to get "hrd" like tool steel. Just brittle enough that it lose it's elasticity/maleabilty.

[JMP]

Here's a question I have that is related to this somewhat, but wouldn't one get more life out of their brass if they used dies that are close to the size of their chamber?

Yes, absolutely. You can get custom dies made for your chamber by sending in some fired brass. However, factory dies are just fine as Redding goes well with PTG spec'd reamers.

IOW, but using Redding dies with a proper bushing for your chamber, wouldn't that get one more life than annealing would?

The bushing is for neck tension, so the size of the bushing depends on the projectile and brass thickness, not your chamber. But, I think it helps not having a chamber with a neck that has too much excess diameter. I have a chamber where no sizing is required to reload a cartridge if the Lapua necks are unturned as it has minimum clearance so the springback creates neck tension after firing. As long as you are keeping your ammo straight and watching your OD, it's rather nice.

[FromTheGrave]

If you just do a slight turning of the neck to fit your chamber and use a bushing to get your neck tension, why would the annealing process provide more uniform neck tension? Does the hardness of the brass change asymmetrically throughout the process of firing?

When brass hardens you get springback from your sizing. Annealing reduces that.

Uniform neck tension meaning between a batch of cases, not necessarily a single case.