How to measure precise case head space with L.E. Wilson case gage

[Metal God]

Some of you may know this and others may not . I thought I'd post this how to video in case there are new re loaders or even experienced re loaders that were not aware of the info below .

I've been loading for awhile now and have been using a comparator to measure fire formed cases and my sized cases . It has worked well for me and will keep doing so . I how ever also have the L.E. Wilson case gages . I've always considered them helpful at time but never thought of them as a precision instrument to measure specific measurements . Then I ran across this video explaining how to use the gage . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuJYpm-qplQ

WOW what a DUH moment for me . Of course , why have I not went there in my head before . I was able to confirm that I've been bumping my shoulders back for 308 .002 and 5.56 .003 using that method . That would also seem to mean that method works quite well . Turns out they're not just paper weights after all

I'd add one thing the video did not . Make sure the neck of the case is not protruding from the gage . if so you could be taking the measurement from the case mouth rather then the gage it self .

Thought some like me would find that video helpful .

[AreWeFree]

Thanks, very informative. I haven't graduated to rifle reloading yet, but this looks quite helpful for when I get there.

[JDay]

Good to know.

[NewbieLoader]

Thanks for the link.

[JMP]

It's a bit easier with a headspace comparator.

This is the nice thing about bolt action rifles. You really don't need to size if you have a good chamber. Normally, the chamber is cut so that you have 0.001" of headspace clearance. Also, it's optimal to have the neck diameter with the minimum clearance that you can comfortably make your ammo. If it is done correctly, the ammo will come out the same size you put in. With 0.001" clearance, your fired base comes back out with 0.001" from the spring back. On a high-tolerance neck, with the spring back, the neck also comes out with enough tension to reseat a bullet without neck sizing. This saves a lot of time and fuss with an abundance of steps in sizing.

Note, however, after your first shot, your brass my come out of the chamber a bit shorter as the new piece of brass expands to fit the chamber walls so you have to be a bit careful in loose, wide chambers.

Many folks do not re-size brass after shooting, except to tune the neck tension. This is my preferred approach as the brass is sized well to your chamber. Many guys like the 0.002" just to add a little extra room in case to ensure the ability for rapid feeding. If you measure the fired brass and it sticks far out the end of the gauge like that, you don't want to size it back into that gauge as it just means the reamer was run a little deeper into the chamber, so you should size off that.

For me, in many of my rifles I often don't even tumble the brass, I just pop out the primer with a neck bushing die to reset my neck tension, and it's good to go without fussing over tumbling, sizing, lubricating, trimming, etc. Then, I occasionally square up the cartridge by bumping the shoulders.

[fguffey]

It's a bit easier with a headspace comparator.

This is the nice thing about bolt action rifles. You really don't need to size if you have a good chamber. Normally, the chamber is cut so that you have 0.001"

Well, when you explain that way, nothing matters. EXCEPT! There are a few that have dies, and head space gages, and case gages, and chamber gages with a complementing supporting staff of comparators, height gages, transfers and standards. I am not being cheated when I purchase dies, I will say your dies do not come from the same manufacturer my dies come from. For the most part my dies are RCBS, When I check the ability of my RCBS dies to return a case to minimum length/full length size there is .005" difference in length (30/06) between the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face when compared to the deck of the shell holder to the shoulder of the die. Again, to check, use a head space gage.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

and, the bolt will close on a head space gage.

F. Guffey

[JMP]

Well, when you explain that way, nothing matters. EXCEPT! There are a few that have dies, and head space gages, and case gages, and chamber gages with a complementing supporting staff of comparators, height gages, transfers and standards. I am not being cheated when I purchase dies, I will say your dies do not come from the same manufacturer my dies come from. For the most part my dies are RCBS, When I check the ability of my RCBS dies to return a case to minimum length/full length size there is .005" difference in length (30/06) between the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face when compared to the deck of the shell holder to the shoulder of the die. Again, to check, use a head space gage.

F. Guffey

That is true, I only have a few sets of RCBS for plinking ammo as they are a pretty good value for cheap dies. I will say, however, that 0.005" of headspace is about 0.004" too much.

[pacrat]

Well, when you explain that way, nothing matters. EXCEPT! There are a few that have dies, and head space gages, and case gages, and chamber gages with a complementing supporting staff of comparators, height gages, transfers and standards. I am not being cheated when I purchase dies, I will say your dies do not come from the same manufacturer my dies come from. For the most part my dies are RCBS, When I check the ability of my RCBS dies to return a case to minimum length/full length size there is .005" difference in length (30/06) between the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face when compared to the deck of the shell holder to the shoulder of the die. Again, to check, use a head space gage.

F. Guffey

A loader does NOT HAVE to have hard contact between a shell holder and die base. That is a personal choice of adjustment, that I learned to avoid long ago when loading for bolt guns. You CAN "neck size" only using standard FL dies from RCBS or anyone else. I,ve been doing it since early 1970s.

The cases will not conform to your chamber as precisely as custom made dies. But the shoulders will/can not be set back any more than the loader chooses them to. Nor will the cases be rattling around in the chamber, like a BB in a box car. And for all practical purposes such as hunting, outside precision competition, it works quite well.

If someone wants to neck size only, without any chance of disturbing the body of the case using OTC dies. The Lee Collet sizers are a good fit. You can even change the mandrel dia. to tune tension. They use perpendicular pressure from the collet to "squeeze" the neck. Standard dies use "friction to extrude" the neck then an expander to set tension. These "tid-bits" are from my personal experience, and only when loading for Bolt Guns. I don't do CF shell shuckers. I don't knock em, it's simply that, rapid fire bullet spitters, are just not my thing.

I will say, however, that 0.005" of headspace is about 0.004" too much.

I totally concur. And BTW, always have. Case spring back is plenty good enough for MY NEEDS. As I have said before. I want my bolt handle "snug" when I turn it down. If I miss in the field. I own that miss, as mine in the field. Not because of any poor loading technique.

As always.........JM2c

[fguffey]

I only have a few sets of RCBS for plinking ammo as they are a pretty good value for cheap dies. I will say, however, that 0.005" of headspace is about 0.004" too much.

Normally, the chamber is cut so that you have 0.001" of headspace clearance.

"you have 0.001" of head space clearance" ? No 'I' don't. If I chamber a factory, new, over the counter round in a chamber I did not cut the difference in length between the case from the shoulder to the case head and the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face is .005". That would include 270, 280, 30/06 etc.. If I purchase new, factory over the counter ammo I expect the ammo to be minimum length/full length sized. I measure, I save unfired ammo meaning I have saved one round out of a box of 20, I have saved a round from a belt of linked 30/06. It is not likely I am going to experience a fail to chamber case but if I did I can compare the fail to chamber case to a case that will chamber.

If I chamber a round with .001" clearance it will be because I did not adjust the die to return the case to minimum length/full length size.

If you measure the fired brass and it sticks far out the end of the gauge like that,

"sticks far out"? Measuring with a Wilson case gage: The Wilson case gage is a very precision gage. I can fire a case in a chamber then measure the length of the case in the gage to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face in thousandths. Two different ways, I can use a straight edge and a feeler gage or I can use a flat surface (again) with a feeler gage.

F. Guffey

[JMP]

"sticks far out"? Measuring with a Wilson case gage: The Wilson case gage is a very precision gage. I can fire a case in a chamber then measure the length of the case in the gage to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face in thousandths. Two different ways, I can use a straight edge and a feeler gage or I can use a flat surface (again) with a feeler gage.

F. Guffey

Guff, I don't understand what you mean. Yes, the Wilson gauge is going to be very uniform in precision, but if your gunsmith ran the reamer in more deeply (or less deeply) into the barrel when he chambered the rifle, you can get cases that are too long or too short to be measured with the gauge. Some folks will run a reamer into the chamber more deeply to give the case a larger volume. If you have a chamber like this, the base of the case will protrude beyond the end of the gauge, which at this point, it becomes difficult to get precise measurements as the gauge is not always flush with the sides of the case.

[LynnJr]

FGuffey
Your on the reloading forum here and the only reason to use 0.005 clearance is if you are shooting a 50 BMG semi automatic. No n

[pacrat]

FGuffey
Your on the reloading forum here and the only reason to I use 0.005 clearance is if you are I'M shooting a 50 BMG semi automatic. No n

FIFY, since it is your opinion. It should be worded as such.


guffey said

If I chamber a round with .001" clearance it will be because I did not adjust the die to return the case to minimum length/full length size.

That's his opinion, hence his use of the word "I".

[LynnJr]

And it shows he has poor reloading practices. My post was a statement of fact that didn't need you to opine on. In a nutshell Pacrat if you want to try and blow smoke my way get a much taller ladder.

[JMP]

pacrat, with all the attention you pay to grammar and the imperative pronoun used, you and the Guff are the two most difficult to understand of anyone that posts technical information in this forum.

My English is superb, but I have a difficult time deciphering what Guff says sometimes.

Bottom Line: When one posts technical information, the most important part is that it is clear and concise.

I have a problem with this as well as when I am away from mathematics and physical sciences, I am much more of a prose writer.

Have you noticed when ar15barrels posts technical information? His grammar is not perfect, but he is clear and concise and it allows a reader to easily understand what he is saying. He is direct with an answer and is far less verbose than most posters. That's the best way to communicate over the internet.

If you want to get a point across, it should not be espoused through subtleties in your language.

I suppose there are a lot of things we agree on, yet there remains confusions due to the way we've written or read things. In one thread, you explicitly said that you believed that I was purposely trying to attack your opinions or arguments when I was simply asking for clarification.

In forum format and modern day a auto-correct/complete the fact is that we cannot scrutinize language. Rather that being nit-picky, let's focus on the facts.