Can someone confirm that I won't blow my face off? 45-70 load

[ziconceo]

I have a modern 45-70 rifle and would like a middle range load for it using imr 4064. I'm using 500 grain cast bullets. Thank you

37 grains of 4064 is the load, sorry I didn't post that sooner

[Citadelgrad87]

Best I can do is offer to hold your beer, and of course film it.

[Capt.Dunsel]

I have a modern 45-70 rifle and would like a middle range load for it using imr 4064. I'm using 500 grain cast bullets. Thank you

Look Here :http://stevespages.com/458_1_500.html


43.4 gr is the starting load max is 55 gr , you are well below what I can find.

[rdfact]

Lyman 49th Edition lists different loads for:

"For 1873 Springfield" - several powders and loads for a 500gr cast bullet. IMR 4064 is not listed.

"For 1886 Winchester & 1895 Marlin Only)" - no loads listed for a cast or jacketed 500gr bullet.

"For Ruger No. 1 and No. 3 Only)" - several powders and loads for a 500gr cast bullet. IMR 4064 is not listed.

[rdfact]

Hodgdon's site does not even list a load for a 500gr bullet

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

[Spaceghost]

Lead sled + string to trggier and a chronograph? Then examine case for pressure signs.

Don't forget to have Citadel film it!

[joe_gman]

My book states that with a 485 Grain cast bullet, IMR 4064 start load is 38.5 grains and max load is 41 grains. I know that isn't a 500 grain bullet, but down loading it by 2 or 3 grains would be consistent with the load tables I've seen.

[ziconceo]

My book states that with a 485 Grain cast bullet, IMR 4064 start load is 38.5 grains and max load is 41 grains. I know that isn't a 500 grain bullet, but down loading it by 2 or 3 grains would be consistent with the load tables I've seen.

Okay, so sounds like I should be good with 37 grains thanks for the data!

[Capybara]

OP, don't you own at least a couple of manuals so you can cross reference? Just curious why you are asking anonymous people on the web for load data instead of using published SAAMI approved data from the manufacturers?

[ziconceo]

OP, don't you own at least a couple of manuals so you can cross reference? Just curious why you are asking anonymous people on the web for load data instead of using published SAAMI approved data from the manufacturers?

My lyman manual showed nothing so what i did was look up handloads.com and used a similar powder as a reference for the 4064 and reduced the load to produce about the same ftpounds as a mosin nagant round.

[ar15barrels]

I played around in Quickload.
Seating length is a big factor.
It would also help to know the specific bullet you are using.

Here is a quickload SIMULATION with a 500gr lee bullet:

Cartridge          : .45-70 Govt. SAAMI
Bullet             : .457, 500, LEE 457-500-F
Useable Case Capaci: 49.510 grain H2O = 3.215 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.700 inch = 68.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm
Powder             : IMR 4064

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.273% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-22.7   79    34.00   1113    1375   14273   2800     68.6    2.171
-20.5   81    35.00   1147    1462   15371   2939     70.3    2.096
-18.2   83    36.00   1182    1552   16546   3079     72.0    2.024
-15.9   86    37.00   1217    1645   17803   3218     73.6    1.955
-13.6   88    38.00   1252    1741   19151   3357     75.2    1.889
-11.4   90    39.00   1288    1841   20595   3496     76.8    1.827
-09.1   93    40.00   1323    1944   22141   3633     78.3    1.767
-06.8   95    41.00   1359    2051   23806   3770     79.8    1.710  ! Near Maximum !
-04.5   97    42.00   1395    2160   25590   3904     81.3    1.655  ! Near Maximum !
-02.3  100    43.00   1431    2274   27509   4036     82.7    1.602  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0  102    44.00   1467    2390   29574   4166     84.0    1.552  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.3  104    45.00   1504    2510   31797   4294     85.3    1.504  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.5  107    46.00   1540    2633   34194   4417     86.6    1.457  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.8  109    47.00   1577    2760   36782   4538     87.8    1.412  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+09.1  111    48.00   1613    2890   39579   4654     89.0    1.369  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+11.4  114    49.00   1650    3024   42610   4766     90.1    1.328  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    102    44.00   1568    2729   35856   4430     91.8    1.428  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    102    44.00   1349    2021   24024   3748     73.9    1.709  ! Near Maximum !

Your propellant burn percentages are atrociously low.
I would go to a faster powder.

[Wrangler John]

The source of all things .45-70 Govt. can be found at www.loaddata.com but you have to pay for a subscription.

I have a Siamese Mauser that was purpose built for 500 grain cast and jacketed bullets, with a 24" Douglas XX Air Gauged 1:18" twist barrel. Best accuracy with all bullets was with IMR 3031 and IMR 4198, H-4198, in that order.

Two loads for the Lee cast 500 grain bullet (http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-c457-500-f.html) are:

H-4198 36.1 grains, 1382 fps (starting load)

H4198 41.0 grains, 1549 fps (max load)

In the Ruger #1 or similar strong actions (from Loaddata.com):

500 grain Hornady, 48.0 grains IMR 4198

500 grain Hornady, 57.0 grains IMR 3031 (compressed load)

Among other powders that work are Varget, H322, H335, Bl-C2.

There are two manuals that are a must have for shooting cast and jacketed bullets (well there are more, but these are cheap and informative):

http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Modern-Reloading-Format/dp/B000N8OKAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431006352&sr=8-1&keywords=MODERN+RELOADING+2ND+ED+Richard+Lee

http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Edition-Reloading-Handbook-9816049/dp/B001FBFW6U

Have fun.

[JMP]

OP, don't you own at least a couple of manuals so you can cross reference? Just curious why you are asking anonymous people on the web for load data instead of using published SAAMI approved data from the manufacturers?

It's a two edged sword. Once you progress beyond the things that everyone knows how to load like 9mm, .223, .308, etc. that are near impossible to screw up, you will find that manuals do not have accurate or even listed data for modern cartridges. Then, for some of the really old cartridges the published loads are awful as they have not taken into account modern chambers that can handle much more pressure. 45-70 is so old that folks shot it with black powder, so the book loads are made to work across most firearms, which may lead to subpar results depending on your firearm.

For 100+ year old cartridges that aren't common, many have not been properly reassessed with modern chambers and the current smokeless propellants available now. For new cartridges (less than 10 years old or not in common use), they, again, usually do not appear in manuals.

The best source for the more esoteric cartridges is by asking reliable folks with experience using the cartridge. Unfortunately, random people on the internet do not usual equate to a reliable source. Hence, it's a bit difficult, but manuals simply do not hack it.

Your propellant burn percentages are atrociously low.
I would go to a faster powder.

I think that is true. I do not load 45-70, but I load 460 Mag and 458 WinMag, which are quite similar (with 45-70 in the middle).

For 458 WinMag, even with 500s, H322 is a good powder. I don't need to even look at QuickLoad to tell you that 4064 won't be great. It isn't going to squib, but I highly doubt it'll be what you want.

[1859sharps]

what is the rifle you are loading for? when you say modern, do you mean recently manufactured, or a modern late 20th century action?

if you mean recently manufactured, but of a 19th century design, that affects what you can safely load.

if you mean modern design, such as Ruger #1, Thompson contender or similar that means something else.

[ziconceo]

what is the rifle you are loading for? when you say modern, do you mean recently manufactured, or a modern late 20th century action?

if you mean recently manufactured, but of a 19th century design, that affects what you can safely load.

if you mean modern design, such as Ruger #1, Thompson contender or similar that means something else.

Its a marlin that was produced less than 5 years ago.