First time bullet seating question

[hardlyworking]

The necks of .223 brass are close to a quarter inch long. If your powder level is sitting flush with the shoulder, then you should be able to get near the .224 seating depth without compressing the powder. I'm assuming you're using an extruded (stick) powder?

Yes, but if I seat the bullets .224 into the neck the OAL is going to be like 2.01, which is pretty damn short!

[LynnJr]

Re-read my post above and let your gun not somebody else's gun tell you what it likes.
You should also leave your rounds as long as possible for your magazine and find your correct powder charge first rather than doing both at the same time.

[Grunt81]

Yes, but if I seat the bullets .224 into the neck the OAL is going to be like 2.01, which is pretty damn short!

Gotcha. Fortunately for us, Nosler posts load data online.

http://www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/223-remington/

I'm assuming you're using the 40gr HP with a flat base.
Their tested OAL was 2.125". On pure extrapolation, that bullet is about 0.075" shorter than a 55 grain with same profile, and 0.045" longer than a 34 grain. This all makes sense if the extra bullet weight is going to the tip of the bullet. If you're worried about not having enough neck tension on the bullet, go ahead and seat to their published OAL of 2.125". I don't think you'd have an issue crimping 40gr HPFB that are seated long, but any accuracy difference is for you to find out. Then again, all ARs should be minute of man with any competent hand load or factory ammo. It's just all up to the expectations you have and results you want.

Xtreme 55gr or Hornady 55gr FMJ w/cannelure are great choices for indiscriminant blasting at steel, up to 600 yards. If you want to reach out and touch paper for groups to see what your rifle is really capable of from a magazine, I'd definitely go with a 68 to 77gr HPBT match bullet w/out a cannelure. Any farther than that and a bolt-action rifle that uses a higher charge is a better tool for the job.

[Grunt81]

Re-read my post above and let your gun not somebody else's gun tell you what it likes.
You should also leave your rounds as long as possible for your magazine and find your correct powder charge first rather than doing both at the same time.

Settle down, Lynn. If you think I've given bad advice at any point, let me know where and why. Reccomending a bullet weight for a certain twist rate, is not the same thing as giving a powder brand, charge, and primer.

I don't bother messing with OAL of a .223 bullet, once it fits into the magazine of an AR-15. Following the belief that a 0.000" to 0.020" jump to the rifling is ideal, there's no way an AR-15 with any of the three chambers I listed above can meet that. You recommended going down in 0.005" increments. Do you think that seating shorter than magazine length can yield better results, with reduced case capacity?

[hardlyworking]

I think Lynn is trying to be helpful, and I may have confused the issue by referencing a factory round a couple of times, which I did purely for reference sake. Actually, I started out using XM193 as a "gauge" for OAL/seating depth but scratched that as soon as I read Lynn's first post.

Now remember guys, I'm only using these 40 grainers because they were free/gift and as an educational tool.

With my pmags, I've done as suggested and loaded them as long as I feel is possible without dragging tips on the interior wall. I think this is advice that both Lynn and Grunt have given, and matches what I've read elsewhere.

As of now, I have 5 charge weights, and one seating depth/OAL. I was intending to fire these and look for signs of overpressure which I don't expect to find as I'm under published max for the powder. Also looking for tight groups (though I'm not a benchrest shooter, I'll be putting the AR on a bag)

I feel like I'm following all of the advice given so far, my only concern was how much neck is gripping the shank, which lead to the discussion of what bullet and how deep is ideal.

I think we are all in agreement that loading longer is better, and I definitely appreciate Lynn trying to save me from the agony of compounding a variable powder charge, with a variable seating depth at the same time. (Not that Grunt was suggesting I do this, we were just chewing fat on the intricacies of short bullets, AFAIK)

[Grunt81]

OP, despite your screen name, it sounds like you're working hard and doing the right things. Feel free to browse Nosler's free load data so you know what the manufacturer used. I've never shot 40 grainers but I would if they were a gift. Keep in mind, these 40 grain bullets at an OAL of 2.125" were shot our of a rifle with a 1:12 twist, 24" barrel, and .223 Remington chamber.

And it's good that you're doing a precision test off a bag, as it's wise to eliminate as much human error as possible. A lot people, myself included, short of a custom made rest to fire off of, prefer using a decent bipod with a rear bag for load development.

I'm sure you'll do fine, and have fun while you're at it.

[LynnJr]

Grunt81
I don't pick on anybody asking for help. I just don't do that.
The problem with using book loads is we don't know how much freebore is in the chamber of either rifle.
The only thing we do know is seating depth is the second most important thing to accuracy and that as little as 0.005 will make a huge difference in how your gun shoots.
So if we have two 223's we are working with one of ours and one of our bullet manufacturers. That is a huge assumption on our part because the bullet manufacturer probably has test barrels set up for lightweight and heavyweight bullets.
The original poster should keep all of his bullets at one seating depth until he finds his best powder charge.
After he has his powder charge in the right vicinity he can then move his seating depth deeper in 0.005 increments until his groups shrink up.
By doing things one at a time you don't have to wonder what is helping and what is hurting your groups.
The only time sharing load data is beneficial is when both Barrels have been chambered with the same reamer.

[Grunt81]

Grunt81
I don't pick on anybody asking for help. I just don't do that.

Come on now Lynn. This isn't our first time in a thread together. You know I know you better than that. You are a very knowledgeable member and you do a lot to help out people with various issues that you have experience with.

The problem with using book loads is we don't know how much freebore is in the chamber of either rifle.
The only thing we do know is seating depth is the second most important thing to accuracy and that as little as 0.005 will make a huge difference in how your gun shoots.
So if we have two 223's we are working with one of ours and one of our bullet manufacturers. That is a huge assumption on our part because the bullet manufacturer probably has test barrels set up for lightweight and heavyweight bullets.
The original poster should keep all of his bullets at one seating depth until he finds his best powder charge.
After he has his powder charge in the right vicinity he can then move his seating depth deeper in 0.005 increments until his groups shrink up.
By doing things one at a time you don't have to wonder what is helping and what is hurting your groups.
The only time sharing load data is beneficial is when both Barr's have been chambered with the same reamer.

I agree with all of the above.

[LynnJr]

But grunt you weren't asking the question.