Problem with .38 reloads

[DR296]

I loaded up a batch of .38 using Berrys copper plated bullets .357
I had a problem getting these bullets to seat correctly and appeared to be too loose in the case. Even with a good crimp.
I am using a Lee Reloader and dies. Is .357 diam. too small?
By the way. These rounds with 3.4 grns of Bullseye, sucked

[maxx03]

Try belling the case only enough to hold the bullet when you tilt the case upside down.

[mulyhuntr]

You are belling the case too much, or your expander is oversized. Pull the expander out and measure with a caliper and report back with results. Measure the bullet diameter as well.

Also, post a picture of expanded case with bullet sitting in it(not yet seated), if possible.

[pacrat]

You are belling the case too much, or your expander is oversized. Pull the expander out and measure with a caliper and report back with results. Measure the bullet diameter as well.

Also, post a picture of expanded case with bullet sitting in it(not yet seated), if possible.

IIRC, and maybe I don't, been over 40 yrs since I used a Lee Loader. The pistol sets don't have an "expander", only a sizer and flaring tool. Relying on neck thickness from outside dim from sizer to hold bullet.

May need to use a .358" bullet or find some thicker cases.

JM2c

[Citadelgrad87]

IIRC, and maybe I don't, been over 40 yrs since I used a Lee Loader. The pistol sets don't have an "expander", only a sizer and flaring tool. Relying on neck thickness from outside dim from sizer to hold bullet.

May need to use a .358" bullet or find some thicker cases.

JM2c

Wow, that's about when I last used mine, too. You are correct, at least for the version I have, there's a die that is a flaring tool on one side, a crimped on the other. I don't recall ever having a bullet fall into the case.

Iirc, pound the case into the sizer, deprime when you drive it out. Prime it, flare it, charge it, bullet, crimp, repeat.

Man, I made a lot of reloads on that thing.

I still have it, I saw it the other day.

[mulyhuntr]

IIRC, and maybe I don't, been over 40 yrs since I used a Lee Loader. The pistol sets don't have an "expander", only a sizer and flaring tool. Relying on neck thickness from outside dim from sizer to hold bullet.

May need to use a .358" bullet or find some thicker cases.

JM2c

Learn something new every day!

OP, do you happen to be using remington brass?

[checkenbach]

I don't know if Lee does this, but RCBS supplies a spacer ring that you use under .38 Special die set when you load for .357, as the .357 case is a bit longer. I have forgot to put the spacer ring in a few times while sizing .357 brass and using the .38 setup, and it gives the brass a huge flare!!!

[DR296]

It seems these Berrys bullets might be the problem. I am getting an actual size of .356

[J-cat]

Relying on neck thickness from outside dim from sizer to hold bullet

In metallic cartridge reloading, "neck thickness from outside dim from sizer" is the primary system that retains the projectile within the case. The crimp has very little to do with it, mainly stopping bullets from pulling out under recoil in revolvers.

[pacrat]

In metallic cartridge reloading, "neck thickness from outside dim from sizer" is the primary system that retains the projectile within the case. The crimp has very little to do with it, mainly stopping bullets from pulling out under recoil in revolvers.

Certainly not in my experience. Lee Loaders yes, they are a hammer activated hand loading system which lacks an expander. Very simplistic, yet highly functional, but not fast.

Standard die sets for presses, not so. The roughly 2 dozen sets I have for various calibers from straight walled pistol and rifle cartridges, to bottleneck rifle and pistol cartridges by various companies. All have an "expander" function.

With these press dies. The sizer, sizes the neck area to "just under" finish size from the outside. Then the expander sizes the neck from the inside to assure proper neck tension. Usually .001" under bullet diameter.

This all but eliminates seating retention problems due to variances in neck thickness.

JM2c

[opos]

I recently went through a situation that may be a bit similar..and the question about R/P brass is valid...I use Lee dies and have used them on thousands of rounds of several calibers...I'd given my set of 38 special dies to a friend and picked up a new set..the Lee 4 die set with the FCD...I've never sorted 38 special plinking brass by head stamp..just load moderate loads that have worked for years and go merrily along my way...

I began to have issues with some of the 125 grain SJHP bullets I've loaded for a long time..had some that were found to be way looser than they should have been..started to track things down and found it was all R/P brass...I did a measurement of the brass at the throat and it was about .002 thinner than Federal and Winchester....I contacted Lee and sent them some brass, some projectiles and the sizing die..

Turns out that the R/P brass was in fact thinner but "in spec" and the sizing die was also in spec but way at the high end of their spec...the cumulative error did not allow enough neck tension...they replaced the sizing die and I'm back to just loading and shooting with no issues...

[pacrat]

opos said,

Turns out that the R/P brass was in fact thinner but "in spec" and the sizing die was also in spec but way at the high end of their spec...the cumulative error did not allow enough neck tension...they replaced the sizing die and I'm back to just loading and shooting with no issues...

It is called "tolerance stacking" and it can effect all things that rely on closely machined tolerances.

Another issue than can and sometimes does create the same symptom. Is metallurgy. Even if neck thickness is consistant. Some cases are harder than others and thus springier.

Quick fix is to turn down expander button .0005 to .001" But this can cause issues with other cases neck tension.

I've never found it practical to anneal straight wall pistol cases. [they're cheap] So I usually just toss them.

JM2c

[DR296]

Okay guys. The last loads I did. I used 3.4 grns Bullseye and an oal of 1.45. In doing these charges I noticed 3.4 grains was a very small amount in the case. Anyway these loads sucked at best. Any suggestions?

[Meety Peety]

Okay guys. The last loads I did. I used 3.4 grns Bullseye and an oal of 1.45. In doing these charges I noticed 3.4 grains was a very small amount in the case. Anyway these loads sucked at best. Any suggestions?

What sucked about them - poor accuracy? What were your groups and at what distance with what gun? Any keyholing? Is there any reason you continue to use 3.4gr of bullseye in your testing? Have you tried any other charge weights? Also, what bullet weight are you currently loading? You are confident with your amount of crimp?

[DR296]

Okay. Thinking about this and realizing I may have belled the cases too much, I am gonna do another batch.
The bullets are 158grn Berrys copper plated round nose. According to my Lee Manual 3.5grns of bullseye is the never exceed load for Lead Bullets, which I understand is recommended Load data for copper plated bullets. This was my first time loading .38 and using the Lee factory crimp die. In checking this evening I find these cases vary in length, which would also change where the crimper is. The case lengths vary from 1.39 to 1.51. I think a case cutter for this caliber is in order, so I can have more uniformity.
I am shooting these from a 4inch Ruger Gp100. It felt like I was firing .380 rounds thru it with these loads.
I also tried them in my Henry Carbine chambered in .357. The Henry didn't like them at all. This is also where I noticed the problem of the bullet sinking into the case when loaded in the Tube of the Henry. The Henry didn't like factory .38 loads either.
The GP100 is very accurate with factory rounds a do over is in order. I will do another run of 25 or so. I would like to increase the charge a bit but I am a little nervous going over the 3.5 mark
I also load 9mm and .45 ACP and have not experienced this problem with either of those calibers