ATTN: AUDIOPHILES!

[Yugo]

STAY THE **** AWAY FROM BOSE!. If you want a surround sound buy a receiver and speakers. Bose is designed for people that have no clue about anything that has to do with technology. Bose USED to make REALLY good speakers. IN THE 80's.

[Yugo]

audiophile gave you the BEST & LEAST expensive way to have a REAL surround sound.

[Yugo]

Oh and if you want sound bar since your room is symmetrical get the YSP yamaha series. http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio...und-projector/

[bombadillo]

audiophile gave you the BEST & LEAST expensive way to have a REAL surround sound.

Not a chance. You must not have seen the option I gave him. Fluance 5 piece timbre matched front mains, center, and surrounds. REAL floorstanding loudspeakers for theater, and a single lava sub 12" that competes with the big boys on the low end for $550 or so.



Plus this:



And it will be a rocking system for the money. Not saying Audiophil wasn't correct as well, but there are even cheaper methods of doing quality work and having matched sets of components.

[bombadillo]

And BTW, go listen to a local Magnepan dealer and they will blow your mind with the sound quality of 2 panel speakers. Its a lot of fun, but at 6k per pair they get pricy for the better ones.

[sholling]

Front and rear satellites
Pioneer SP-BS22-LR $129/pr

Center
Pioneer SP-C22 $100

Subwoofer
Polk Audio PSW125 BLACK 110V $290

Those Pioneers are actually pretty good entry priced speakers and not at all a bad choice at all for those on a tight budget. On the other hand, I still suggest that the OP put more money into the sub and get a Hsu or a SVSounds subwoofer sized to fill his room.

[penguinofsleep]

not bad calguns. not bad at all. i'm more into headphones/earphones and the like, but yeah, what everyone else is saying is about right.

and yes OP, skip the bose.

[bombadillo]

My headphones are MDR-7506 Sony. Those things are by far the best all around headphone I've found for MY personal listening needs. Maybe a little lacking on the super low end, but I'm not listening to dub step or rap really very much. For the jazz, blues, hip-hop, DMB, acoustic, and otherwise they are phenomenal.

[bombadillo]

Sholling, have you been able to audition a Lava sub yet? You would be blown away at what dual 12" Lava subs are capable of. You can get 2, 12" subs for the price of 1 HSU or SVS 10" sub. They are near identical on paper in most ways, and are really good working man's subwoofers.

[audiophil2]

So given your experience with CES and such is this your recommendation for a budget system based on the products you tested ? I'm not knocking it at all. Just clarifying.

I've owned pioneer and have heard great things about Polk. I would just be tempted to get something slightly bigger and a sub that dips into a lower frequency like the HSU VTF MK2 or MK4 (provided you have the room).

It's hard for me to recommend anything as every person has their opinion on what sounds good. Most folks have not listened no live performances or truly high end audio so they have no flagship with which to judge.

I have always considered Pioneer to be a junk brand until I tried out the speakers I have. I would not buy anything else branded by them. The Yamaha and Polk subwoofer were quick picks. I chose the Yamaha for the room measurement software. It does a decent job getting the time delays right. The sub was simply on sale. I will be swapping that one out with either a home built one or a decent 12" with passive radiator if I can find one like that. Ported subs sound horrible at high volume levels due to air rushing through the ports. They also artificially bump the frequencies up the the port is tuned to. Again, great for the boom and tinkle crowd but not for audiophiles.

Subs and lower frequency are nearly impossible to recreate in a home environment. The majority of music and movie "bass" is in the 50-100hz range. Below that you need lots of power and lots of driver. A single 12" won't cut it.
For example, I was building isobaric enclosures containing 2 pairs of 15" subwoofers in car audio systems. Those could barely hit 10hz and only at low volume levels otherwise the woofers self destructed. Running test tomes in the 10-20hz range does not produce sound much, rather pressure waves. The booming bass sound you hear in cars is 50-90hz. This is why a ported sub is not a good idea for quality audio as once you get into the frequency range of tubas and pipe organs you go below the tuned frequency of the port and cause the cabinet to go into extreme distortion.

Not a chance. You must not have seen the option I gave him. Fluance 5 piece timbre matched front mains, center, and surrounds. REAL floorstanding loudspeakers for theater, and a single lava sub 12" that competes with the big boys on the low end for $550 or so.


And it will be a rocking system for the money. Not saying Audiophil wasn't correct as well, but there are even cheaper methods of doing quality work and having matched sets of components.

The Fluance uses titanium tweeters. I have found those to be very harsh. They are great for folks that are into the thump and tinkle type of sound where the system is all bass and highs but not for quality sound reproduction. When I was building competition car audio systems the winners did not use titanium, they used silk. Your Best Buy Klipsch speaks use aluminum tweeters so you are experiencing and must prefer the harsher unrealistic sound of metallic material speakers. It is common for people that have hearing loss in the upper frequencies as those are easiest to lose. Do you increase the hi-range settings on your equipment?

Those Pioneers are actually pretty good entry priced speakers and not at all a bad choice at all for those on a tight budget. On the other hand, I still suggest that the OP put more money into the sub and get a Hsu or a SVSounds subwoofer sized to fill his room.

He will need a quality sub due to the room dimensions and materials in it.


I'm a real snob when it comes to audio. That is why I gave up on buying a system that I would consider near perfect. It would cost more than decades of symphony tickets. Instead I looked for the cheapest setup I could tolerate. They is for better out there but once you start listening to the goods stuff you will be going down an expensive rabbit hole.

[Jimi Jah]

My headphones are MDR-7506 Sony. Those things are by far the best all around headphone I've found for MY personal listening needs. Maybe a little lacking on the super low end, but I'm not listening to dub step or rap really very much. For the jazz, blues, hip-hop, DMB, acoustic, and otherwise they are phenomenal.

I come from the pro audio designer world. I didn't care for the 7606 models. I have used the superior Sony V6 models since the mid 1980's. Those you can get from Fry's for $80. The top end is smoother and more extended and the low end goes deeper too. Otherwise, invest in some Stax electrostatics and hear every mistake ever recorded.

For home stereo I use a pair of JBL 4408 8" speakers with rebuilt crossovers. Those are mated to a custom 15" floor firing subwoofer for honest 25 hz reproduction, great for explosions. I use a modified Adcom GFA555 power amp and a custom built preamp, all direct coupled, DC to 200k hz. I like to build audio gear as well as AR's.

[bombadillo]

It's hard for me to recommend anything as every person has their opinion on what sounds good. Most folks have not listened no live performances or truly high end audio so they have no flagship with which to judge.

I have always considered Pioneer to be a junk brand until I tried out the speakers I have. I would not buy anything else branded by them. The Yamaha and Polk subwoofer were quick picks. I chose the Yamaha for the room measurement software. It does a decent job getting the time delays right. The sub was simply on sale. I will be swapping that one out with either a home built one or a decent 12" with passive radiator if I can find one like that. Ported subs sound horrible at high volume levels due to air rushing through the ports. They also artificially bump the frequencies up the the port is tuned to. Again, great for the boom and tinkle crowd but not for audiophiles.

Subs and lower frequency are nearly impossible to recreate in a home environment. The majority of music and movie "bass" is in the 50-100hz range. Below that you need lots of power and lots of driver. A single 12" won't cut it.
For example, I was building isobaric enclosures containing 2 pairs of 15" subwoofers in car audio systems. Those could barely hit 10hz and only at low volume levels otherwise the woofers self destructed. Running test tomes in the 10-20hz range does not produce sound much, rather pressure waves. The booming bass sound you hear in cars is 50-90hz. This is why a ported sub is not a good idea for quality audio as once you get into the frequency range of tubas and pipe organs you go below the tuned frequency of the port and cause the cabinet to go into extreme distortion.



The Fluance uses titanium tweeters. I have found those to be very harsh. They are great for folks that are into the thump and tinkle type of sound where the system is all bass and highs but not for quality sound reproduction. When I was building competition car audio systems the winners did not use titanium, they used silk. Your Best Buy Klipsch speaks use aluminum tweeters so you are experiencing and must prefer the harsher unrealistic sound of metallic material speakers. It is common for people that have hearing loss in the upper frequencies as those are easiest to lose. Do you increase the hi-range settings on your equipment?



He will need a quality sub due to the room dimensions and materials in it.


I'm a real snob when it comes to audio. That is why I gave up on buying a system that I would consider near perfect. It would cost more than decades of symphony tickets. Instead I looked for the cheapest setup I could tolerate. They is for better out there but once you start listening to the goods stuff you will be going down an expensive rabbit hole.

I agree with those particular speakers. They are cut from different cloth than typical consumer Pioneer speakers. The design of the drivers and tweeter is just flat out better. Thats what happens when you get a quality designer making something from cheap parts in a quality way, using a decent enclosure.

As for my listening at home, I keep things mostly flat. I have Klipsch Icon WF-34 mains and the WC-35 center. They use a titanium "Tractrix horn" system for the tweets and they sound as smooth as any ribbon tweeter I've listened to. I auditioned them comparing them to other higher end Klipsch and Paradigm speakers that day. Listened to some Polk, Boston, PSB, Focal, Magnepan, and I'm sure I missed a few. I ended up with the WF-34's because they filled the niche I wanted them for. I typically listen to a lot of rock, dave matthews, modern jazz, fusion jazz, blues, country, and indie rock. I don't do metal, classical, and things with a lot or horns, so you're probably right about what you prefer. Some like speakers that sound like you're sitting at a symphony and if that is you type of music, thats good for you but it isn't perfect for everyone. Listen to some of the higher end Klipsch for yourself and see if it is too harsh for your ears or type of music. For me, they're perfect. BUT, to answer your question, my receiver goes from -6 to +6 and I usually keep my highs at a +2 or flat, and bass at about +2-3 depending on what I'm listening to or doing. For home theater I crank up the highs and lows for big booming movies like Transformers where the highs and lows shine. For some jazz or someone like Jamie Cullum I would set everything completely flat. I usually listen to my music with the sub off and only using 2 channel. My speakers only REALLY dip down to about 40hz and they are amp'd to handle it. For as small as they are, they can hit the lows better than most but only down to about 40, and past that I use 2 Lava subs anyway.

I come from the pro audio designer world. I didn't care for the 7606 models. I have used the superior Sony V6 models since the mid 1980's. Those you can get from Fry's for $80. The top end is smoother and more extended and the low end goes deeper too. Otherwise, invest in some Stax electrostatics and hear every mistake ever recorded.

For home stereo I use a pair of JBL 4408 8" speakers with rebuilt crossovers. Those are mated to a custom 15" floor firing subwoofer for honest 25 hz reproduction, great for explosions. I use a modified Adcom GFA555 power amp and a custom built preamp, all direct coupled, DC to 200k hz. I like to build audio gear as well as AR's.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/590870/lightbox/post/8063138/id/495753

Check out the comparison between the two. Virtually identical in specs, use, and otherwise. I looked at both and the 7506 actually hit a little lower on the bass, and virtually the same on the highs.



This is a chart that mapped both

gearslutz.com has a comparison as well, and most guys can't HONESTLY discern the difference between the two when listening to the same thing through both cans. Its mostly in your head, but everyone is different and its all a matter of what you want to spend your hard earned ducats on.

[bombadillo]

As for subs, I said before www.lavasubs.com are my favorite budget sub. They are no high end, but they hang with the high end boys JUST FINE.

Here is the spec on the lsp12 sub that I use
Speaker Type: Powered Subwoofer Enclosure Design: Front-firing, front-ported Driver: 12" coated cellulose composite Power: 250 watt internal amplifier Frequency Range, Lowpass: 22 - 200 Hz (+/-3dB) boost: 13dB @ 40Hz Frequency Range, LFE: 24 - 400 Hz (+/-3dB) Sensitivity: 200mV @ 250W Crossover: 40 - 200 Hz continuously variable low pass Inputs: Line level RCA, speaker level Cabinet Dimensions: 18 7/8" [479 mm] H (including feet) 13 3/4" [350 mm] W 16 3/8" [416 mm] D (including grill and amp) Grill Material: MDF frame w/ black speaker cloth Available Colors: Black vinyl, lightly textured





I have dual subs in my setup, and currently use w 10's instead of the single 12. I just like the tight sound and quality reproduction they have in a tight package. Good luck on whatever you choose OP, but you really can't go wrong with these and can get your money back out anytime you want.


Also consider BIC bookshelf speakers. They rate really well and I ended up getting the DV62si set for my shop setup and they sound great when hooked up with 65 watts from an old solid state pacific audio receiver.



Good luck and I hope I'm not sounding argumentative. EVERYONE has different opinions on speakers and what sounds GREAT to me, may not be all that great for you. Listen to as many as you can and buy a good, cheap setup which you can do for well under 1k if you do your homework and set it up yourself.

[audiophil2]

I agree with those particular speakers. They are cut from different cloth than typical consumer Pioneer speakers. The design of the drivers and tweeter is just flat out better. Thats what happens when you get a quality designer making something from cheap parts in a quality way, using a decent enclosure.

As for my listening at home, I keep things mostly flat. I have Klipsch Icon WF-34 mains and the WC-35 center. They use a titanium "Tractrix horn" system for the tweets and they sound as smooth as any ribbon tweeter I've listened to. I auditioned them comparing them to other higher end Klipsch and Paradigm speakers that day. Listened to some Polk, Boston, PSB, Focal, Magnepan, and I'm sure I missed a few. I ended up with the WF-34's because they filled the niche I wanted them for. I typically listen to a lot of rock, dave matthews, modern jazz, fusion jazz, blues, country, and indie rock. I don't do metal, classical, and things with a lot or horns, so you're probably right about what you prefer. Some like speakers that sound like you're sitting at a symphony and if that is you type of music, thats good for you but it isn't perfect for everyone. Listen to some of the higher end Klipsch for yourself and see if it is too harsh for your ears or type of music. For me, they're perfect. BUT, to answer your question, my receiver goes from -6 to +6 and I usually keep my highs at a +2 or flat, and bass at about +2-3 depending on what I'm listening to or doing. For home theater I crank up the highs and lows for big booming movies like Transformers where the highs and lows shine. For some jazz or someone like Jamie Cullum I would set everything completely flat. I usually listen to my music with the sub off and only using 2 channel. My speakers only REALLY dip down to about 40hz and they are amp'd to handle it. For as small as they are, they can hit the lows better than most but only down to about 40, and past that I use 2 Lava subs anyway.

And this is why recommending audio equipment is a fools errand. Each person has different taste and needs.


For some real sub testing bass try War of the Worlds, Olympus Has Fallen, and Live Free or Die Hard.

For audio reference try these
MASSIVE ATTACK-INERTIA CREEPS and TEARDROP
MICHAEL JACKSON BLACK AND WHITE
KRAFTWERK THE MIX
PEARL JAM ALIVE
CANDLEBOX CHANGE and FAR BEHIND
MADONNA RAIN

For some serious system testing
TELARC SPIES MUSIC OF ESPIONAGE
TELARC THE GREAT FANTASY ADVENTURE ALBUM
SHEFFIELD LABS "MY DISC"

[bombadillo]

Yup, war of the worlds is one of the ultimate sub testing movies.

The first transformers was one of the best surround sound and low end movies to watch


Anything Telarc is pretty much the shiz.

Dave Matthews for subtle highs and punchy mids. Plus I love his music to begin with.

I haven't tried the Sheffield Labs stuff, but I'll give it a look.


I would recommend OP to get the music or DVD of your choice and take it to the local audio shop and try to get an audition of your music you KNOW WELL. It is such a personal thing. Sometimes folks like really warm, low tone mids and lows, and what I would considered muffled highs, but I like crisp, punchy music. I'm a fan of Klipsch's horn setups and the Klipschorns are my unicorn speakers that I will own one day. Magnepans are my favorite music speakers but they really lack on the lows. You can get a killer deal on them at various dealers if they want to move them for the new model. It is such a personal choice though.

Vanns.com clearance will give you a killer deal on some things.

Velodyne, Polk, Klipsch, Energy, KEF, Jamo, Boston Acoustics, PSB, Definitive Tech, are all good consumer grade quality speakers. Figure out your tastes and go from there.

Good luck!!!!!