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  • #16
    Mr.Pickles
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2009
    • 637

    I like how this thread went on prebuilt vs. DIY. I see a computer like a gun. You can build one from parts or buy one complete from a shop. The OP was asking how to build a computer and seems like the fellow was interested in getting into a really simple hobby of computers.

    Prebuilts are nice for hassle free computing and repair. The main problem is that a lot of big box manufactures the use of sub-par parts. They buy these by the lot and at the cheapest that they can get them. Dell uses Intel motherboards and whatever cheap RAM they got(they get some real off the wall stuff sometimes). I have seen HP(not Compaq) use Asus motherboards and random chinsy RAM. As for Hard Drives I have seen them all use good ones,such as Seagate or Western Digital or cheaper(not all bad) Samsung, Hitachi, and the worst of the worst Maxtor. Power supplies are always a funny one since a lot of them are pure garbage and barley handle the machine that they were made for. Dell for some reason ranks high in this area. I have taken a few of these apart and found that they use good capacitors. None of these OEMs are bad they make good machines, just not up to my high standard.

    Building a computer can be a easy task. The reason I say can is because sometimes you just get bad parts which requires shipping that part back. I personally choose to build my own because of warranties that the manufacturer I choose have a long warranties. Western digital has 5years on their drives. MSI, Asus and other have 3 years. Memory makers(all good ones) have lifetime warranties. Power supplies are always up for debate on quality. I just research the ones in the wattage rating I need. Cases only matter on looks. Optical drives are cheap I get whatever fits the budget.

    Now we get to one of the things that makes or breaks the decision of getting into building your own machine, troubleshooting. I know you have to do some when you are talking to a tech in some other country. With a home built unit you are left to your own devices. It might sound like a daunting task but really simple with the amount of guides on the net. Bluescreen? google the first code(0x000007e or what ever it might be), then search out how to test or fix the issue. Also if a peice of hardware goes out instead of waiting on shipping out the whole thing or having dell come out I just replace parts in house or go to Fry's to pick up a new part if I need to.

    I only made this long drawn out post to try to give a unbiased over view of the options at hand, and to give warning at the task ahead. Laptops is a whole different bag of worms. This was also written for small batches of computers(1-5) for 10+ I suggest a OEM due to the time it would take to put all of them together. It is a fun hobbie for personal use, not for large-scale. Money can be saved at the sacafice of a little time. I work on my machine for fixing it about 10 hours a year. once stable sometimes never needs work for that year.

    OP if you want to build one, PM me with what you want to do and price range. I'll find the parts for you for free and give a bit of advice, just not full on support.
    Last edited by Mr.Pickles; 02-19-2011, 2:06 PM.
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    • #17
      Merc1138
      I need a LIFE!!
      • Feb 2009
      • 19742

      Building computers is not a hobby. Building high performance computers is a hobby. There is nothing fun, unique, or anything about screwing in a motherboard, plugging in a power supply, and fitting a bunch of things together that are only made to fit one way.

      This is modern computer building:


      Overclocking CPU's, volt modding, extreme cooling, etc. that's where the fun stuff comes into play. This is why I made to distinction of different intended uses for a computer, and the price point.

      BTW, Seagate and Western Digital have varying product lines from "green", to consumer, and even enterprise level drives. The same thing goes with Hitachi and Samsung. An enterprise class Hitachi drive will out last and out perform a consumer grade Seagate any day of the week. HP, Dell, and the others are not using enterprise class drives in ANY of their pre-built low end systems, no matter what drive manufacturer they're using.

      You also mentioned that cases are only a matter of looks, wrong again. The case dictates exactly what you can put in the computer. I'm not going to put 6 hard drives and 2 full length pcie videocards into a mini atx chassis. Airflow in a case is the next issue on the list and I've seen some cheaply designed cases that can't even provide basic airflow to components like hard drives(and in the worst scenarios, create dead air spaces). Looks are last.

      Also, WD only provides 5 year warranties on their black and enterprise class hard drives. They only provide 3 years for their green(low power, and low performance) and blue(low end consumer level) drives.

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      • #18
        Mr.Pickles
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2009
        • 637

        just a general line to go off of, not to say build a hectacore system with 24 gigs of ram, quad GPU and some expansive RAID system in SSD. It was something to weigh in. Computers can be KISS. I found my fun in whitepapers for hardware. You are right about cases, just something that I give thought after specing out a machine. The unique thing about building even a basic computer is the accomplishment that you can do it yourself. Remember when Hitachi had the deathstar? Thanks for going into detail on a few things I should have.
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        • #19
          wildhawker
          I need a LIFE!!
          • Nov 2008
          • 14150

          I still have a Deathstar in the office as a reminder to backup regularly.
          Brandon Combs

          I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead.

          My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer.

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          • #20
            Merc1138
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Feb 2009
            • 19742

            Originally posted by Mr.Pickles
            just a general line to go off of, not to say build a hectacore system with 24 gigs of ram, quad GPU and some expansive RAID system in SSD. It was something to weigh in. Computers can be KISS. I found my fun in whitepapers for hardware. You are right about cases, just something that I give thought after specing out a machine. The unique thing about building even a basic computer is the accomplishment that you can do it yourself. Remember when Hitachi had the deathstar? Thanks for going into detail on a few things I should have.
            You mean the IBM Desktar 60GXP/75GXP(and a couple others)? That issue hasn't been relevant for years. Also, note that the models were consumer grade desktop drives, not enterprise drives.

            Even Seagate and WD have both had recent flops for product launches(4k sector size disks from WD without labeling the drives, 2TB drives from Seagate shipped with substandard coatings and silently fixed after public product release, it's amazing the knowledge you gain working with engineers from some of these companies).

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            • #21
              Mr.Pickles
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2009
              • 637

              Originally posted by Merc1138
              You mean the IBM Desktar 60GXP/75GXP(and a couple others)? That issue hasn't been relevant for years. Also, note that the models were consumer grade desktop drives, not enterprise drives.

              Even Seagate and WD have both had recent flops for product launches(4k sector size disks from WD without labeling the drives, 2TB drives from Seagate shipped with substandard coatings and silently fixed after public product release, it's amazing the knowledge you gain working with engineers from some of these companies).
              That was a brain laps because the whole Hatachi buying out IBM harddrive division. Also that reminds me that seagate has been having issues since they bought out Maxtor.
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              • #22
                Merc1138
                I need a LIFE!!
                • Feb 2009
                • 19742

                Originally posted by Mr.Pickles
                That was a brain laps because the whole Hatachi buying out IBM harddrive division. Also that reminds me that seagate has been having issues since they bought out Maxtor.
                Because they shifted all product development and production for all of their consumer grade drives to what was left of maxtor.

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                • #23
                  brianinca
                  Member
                  • May 2010
                  • 359

                  >>>
                  An enterprise class Hitachi drive will out last and out perform a consumer grade Seagate any day of the week
                  >>>

                  Not according to Google. Look up their report on 100K drives and their lifespan characteristics.

                  As for Maxtor sucking, doesn't anyone recall the 7200.11's?? Helloooooo???

                  Regards,
                  Brian in CA

                  PS I got $700 back from IBM from Deathstars.

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                  • #24
                    RRangel
                    CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 5164

                    Originally posted by dfxjedi
                    I've been told multiple times that i'd be better off(that it'd be cheaper) building a computer myself than to pay for someone else to build one for me.

                    The problem is that i have no clue how to go about that.
                    What course(s) would i have to take to learn how to build my own computers(gaming or otherwise)?
                    If you want the latest hardware this may not be true. It's relative depending on what your definition of of good system is. You may even be able to buy a decent PC cheaper than building it yourself. You have to decide what cost and performance you're willing to live with.

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                    • #25
                      Merc1138
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 19742

                      Originally posted by brianinca
                      >>>
                      An enterprise class Hitachi drive will out last and out perform a consumer grade Seagate any day of the week
                      >>>

                      Not according to Google. Look up their report on 100K drives and their lifespan characteristics.

                      As for Maxtor sucking, doesn't anyone recall the 7200.11's?? Helloooooo???

                      Regards,
                      Brian in CA

                      PS I got $700 back from IBM from Deathstars.
                      Yes, I recall the Seagate 7200.11's being crap. Again, they were consumer level drives, not enterprise(Segate's enterprise class drives are the Savvio, Cheetah, and Constellation. Not the Barracuda.)

                      Also, Google's report of 100,000 hard drives doesn't cover anything beyond 400GB, and it also failed to mention model or even manufacturer of the drives(and no differentiation between consumer and enterprise level drives).

                      Comment

                      • #26
                        jonyg
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 558

                        There are a lot of tutorials. Most of it is just buying everything on a checklist, then slapping it into place. I put computers together long before I put a gun together - and computers are much easier. There are no special tools needed or anything. Most motherboards etc will come with a manual.

                        Go to newegg.com
                        I go there a lot for computer parts. Use that as a price range estimate.
                        NRA member
                        UCLA!

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                        • #27
                          Merc1138
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 19742

                          Originally posted by jonyg
                          There are a lot of tutorials. Most of it is just buying everything on a checklist, then slapping it into place. I put computers together long before I put a gun together - and computers are much easier. There are no special tools needed or anything. Most motherboards etc will come with a manual.

                          Go to newegg.com
                          I go there a lot for computer parts. Use that as a price range estimate.
                          Don't forget camelegg.com when searching for things on newegg. Camelegg tracks price trends for products there, so you can see if something is really a sale, or if they jacked up the price and then put it "on sale".

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                          • #28
                            UFO hunter
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 1669

                            one big reason to build my own computer (for me) is that any HP/DELL/SONY computer comes loaded with garbage bloatware... I'd rather build my own and do a clean Windows install.

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                            • #29
                              Dreaded Claymore
                              Veteran Member
                              • May 2010
                              • 3231

                              Originally posted by UFO hunter
                              one big reason to build my own computer (for me) is that any HP/DELL/SONY computer comes loaded with garbage bloatware... I'd rather build my own and do a clean Windows install.
                              Oh man, yes. Compaq computers are particularly notorious for all the crapware that comes with them. When I bought one I finally just reinstalled Windows from my own disk that I had previously, but then I had a devil of a time finding all the right drivers. Building your own computer rocks.

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                              • #30
                                Flyin Brian
                                CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                                • Oct 2009
                                • 3395

                                Building a computer can save money and give you a feeling of accomplishment, but don't try it if you are really stupid.

                                I owned a retail computer business for many years and one of my customers decided he wanted to build his next computer himself and save some money. I tried to show him a few things but he got kind of pissy and grabbed all the parts and headed to his Mortgage Business office. An hour later he came back and said I sold him a bad motherboard. I took a look inside and he had screwed the motherboard directly into the tower without any risers!! The whole inside of the case stunk like fried silicone so I knew he had powered it up like that. I had him totally convinced that the reason it wasn't working now was because the components are filled with smoke and he had "let the smoke out". I don't think he ever figured it out
                                NRA Life Member - CRPA Life Member - NRA Certified RSO - USN Veteran

                                I collect Military Arms and enjoy shooting in local matches. I also collect older Lever Actions, especially those chambered in odd/old cartridges. If you have a nice old Winchester or Marlin in 25-20, 32-40, 38-55, 40-60, 45-70, etc etc, please PM me and we can work out a deal.

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