Raspberry Pi 4, 8GB DRAM version, as desktop computer

[Cowboy T]

Hi folks,

Since the new 8GB version of the Raspberry Pi 4 (Model B) came out, I wanted to try it out as a desktop computer and see if it was viable.

Turns out it is...if you configure it to boot from a USB 3.0 SSD disk drive. Fortunately, this is not difficult to do. I used a 1TB, 2.5" Inland SATA SSD in an Inland USB 3.0 enclosure for this purpose. Hey, they were on sale. :-) The computer boots up fast, and applications are very quick to load. In its entirety, with the USB SSD drive + enclosure, case, etc., this little computer cost me just about $200 to build.

Here's the computer, stood up Friday night, held in hand for a size comparison. Thumbnails are clickable.



And here is the Raspbian--now named Raspberry Pi OS--default desktop. The monitor is actually a 1920x1080 Vizio digital TV with HDMI port. Yes, modern TV's actually make pretty decent computer monitors. The upshot is that it's about 6 feet away from my eyes, so that helps us avoid eye stress.



Proof of 8GB DRAM, shots 3 and 4. The third one is with the output from "top", for us UNIX-y command-line junkies. The fourth one is the GUI app (System Monitor) with a familiar Web site in the background. :-) Please pardon the strange interference pattern on this second one; I think it's the refresh rate between the monitor and this phone cam.

The third pic's thumbnail is showing upside down because of Exif data (fixed in the fourth one, now that I know about it). The actual picture does show right-side-up, though.



Best of all, it's low power, thus easier on the environment, while doing everything I need to do. I've got LibreOffice, Firefox and Chromium (both with NoScript), and access to the huge library of apps that are generally available with Debian.

Unless you have a MicroSD card writer in your desktop or laptop (which I do), I would recommend picking up a MicroSD card with "N00bs", the Raspbian automated installer on it. It handles the setup of the OS onto the MicroSD. From there, if you want to move everything to an external USB 3.0 SSD like I did (this is recommended for speed), that's not difficult, either.

[p7m8jg]

Pretty good. Been looking at Raspberry Pi's at the insistence of my son who uses a Pi Hole to block ads on his home network. Interesting stuff.

[SanDiego619]

Dang, that is pretty durn cool.

[the86d]

I have installed Slackware and others on Thin Clients with less.
Works okay, except for anything video... the video proc/RAM QTY on those sucked.

Try running Knoppix, booting and running their live Distro from USB Flash (whatever type you want).

Essentially you are talking an extra +RAM/+storage Firestick.

I used to run SSH tunnels to a dedicated Slackware thin client (single, then later a dual core), and that was good, on a one-trick pony, but performance really suffered for anything else.

I am sure Pi's have better graphics than the thin clients I tried, but try a 3d game, multiple tasks (10+), w/Compiz-Fusion...

I am sure it will work, but for minimalist tasks only (browser and a couple CLIs), I assume.

Try streaming Netflix, Hulu, and Disney Plus...full-screen, then try Tux racer... or TF2.

I ran Pear OS as the native OS on my i7 at work for about a year (about 1800 users supported at the time).

[yellowsulphur]

Yeah, it always starts with just one. Wait till you learn what you can do with the GPIO and your family might miss you.

[ibanezfoo]

Its ok. I use them for various things like monitoring tools, put info type stuff up on shop TVs or whatever. We have a guy testing one for a desktop and its fine for office type stuff or browsing around but would not run our web based fab tools (which is what we wanted it for...to replace a bunch of expensive PCs out in the fab shop) because of the 3D it uses (Forge viewer).

[Cowboy T]

Indeed, I expected the performance to suck, actually. It was originally intended to be the new email, DNS, or Web server. However, after streaming YouTube videos in full screen mode, I was pretty surprised by how workable this thing is.

I also very recently built a couple of 4-core AMD Ryzen 3200G boxes, also with 1TB SSD storage. These are basically "g4m3rz" boxes (seems all the mobos these days are oriented toward the gamer crowd). This 4-core ARM box will never compare to the Ryzen boxen for balls-out performance, and I don't expect it to. Totally different categories. If you're doing 3D rendering, then a Pi is not a good choice for that.

The question I had is, is it enough performance for the average person to use a Pi 4 as a daily-driver desktop?

Yes, it is. I don't have NetFlix, nor do I want it, so I used YouTube instead. At 1920x1080, it plays full-screen YouTube videos surprisingly well, with full audio through the HDMI port. The Chromium browser seems to have a bit better hardware acceleration for the Pi than Firefox does, though Firefox works decently enough. I have the NoScript extension installed on both browsers. For email, I use Evolution, which is basically like MS Outlook (not Outlook Express, but full-blown Outlook). LibreOffice handles my office productivity needs and does so very well. That's what most people do with their computers.

The LXDE desktop that comes as Raspbian's default is not overly complex for the average end-user (in other words, it ain't GNOME! ). It's simple and doesn't get in your way. The Raspbian folks did a good job selecting defaults. The included GUI app to install additional software is simple and to the point, and that's what I used to install LibreOffice, Evolution, and Firefox.

One other point, regarding power usage. My Ryzen boxes have plenty of processing and graphics oomph. That power, of course, comes at a price; neither of them would last an hour on an UPS, whereas this Pi will easily last a couple of days, maybe more. That's really nice if you're using solar panels on your house, as is happening more and more. The Pi just sips electrical power by comparison.

So, Ryzen box or Pi? Depends on what you're doing. 3D rendering or heavy processing tasks? Ryzen-type box, no question. Everyday office or Web-surfing tasks? The Pi does the job.

[Cowboy T]

I have installed Slackware and others on Thin Clients with less.
Works okay, except for anything video... the video proc/RAM QTY on those sucked.

Try running Knoppix, booting and running their live Distro from USB Flash (whatever type you want).

Essentially you are talking an extra +RAM/+storage Firestick.

I used to run SSH tunnels to a dedicated Slackware thin client (single, then later a dual core), and that was good, on a one-trick pony, but performance really suffered for anything else.

I am sure Pi's have better graphics than the thin clients I tried, but try a 3d game, multiple tasks (10+), w/Compiz-Fusion...

I am sure it will work, but for minimalist tasks only (browser and a couple CLIs), I assume.

Try streaming Netflix, Hulu, and Disney Plus...full-screen, then try Tux racer... or TF2.

I ran Pear OS as the native OS on my i7 at work for about a year (about 1800 users supported at the time).

Another Slackware fan? Cool! Been using it regularly since Slackware 8. Currently have it running on one of my older laptops that I'd stuck a new SSD into. Updated it from Slackware 14.2 to Slackware-current. Good stuff.

Yeah, as I pointed out in my above post, a Pi is not a gamer box, by any stretch. It wasn't meant to be. But for general office and Web browsing tasks, which is what it seems most people actually use their computers for, this new Pi 4 seems to do a pretty good job. I was pleasantly surprised with what they've come up with here.

Note: previous versions of the Pi (e. g. the Pi 3 series), I would not recommend trying this as anything other than a thin client. Pi 3's do make fine Web, email, and file servers, though. The Pi 4 is the first version that I would consider for desktop duty.

[DolphinFan]

I bought a Raspberry Pi 400. Love it.

[Mongoos913]

I'm not a computer guy, but was able to put together a retro arcade with 512G microsd card and 8 bit bluetooth controller. Super fun

[WoodTurner]

Pine64 has some interesting stuff as well. I use one of their rockpro64 boards as a NAS/private chat server and it works great.
They recently released a cluster board that is very interesting.

I've built a few Pi3B as a multi-boot linux/emulation station/kodi media box for people and they worked great. The Pi4 is supposed to be even more powerful.

[Cowboy T]

Bought a second Raspberry Pi 4, also 8GB, for testing. Used one of those Argon One M.2 cases with a Crucial MX500 M.2 SATA SSD. It's a $45 case, but I'd heard good things about it, plus I wanted to try the enclosed M.2 SSD option. It's a mostly metal case that both acts as a heatsink and contains a fan for active cooling.

The goal: see if the Pi 4 really can overclock, and if so, what the temperatures and performance would be. The performance was judged in a similar manner to the "butt dyno" often used for cars, i. e. firing up apps and using them.

Stock clock speed of the Pi 4's four-core ARM CPU is 1.5 GHz. I clocked it up to 2.0 GHz, and the video component went from the stock 500 MHz to 750 MHz. Configured the Argon case's fan to come on a bit sooner than stock. Rebooted and ran the "stressberry" testing app, which pegs all four cores of the CPU. Ran this for an hour. The CPU reached a maximum of 63 deg. Celsius by the 30-minute point and stayed right there. The metal Argon case was definitely warm to the touch, but it was never too hot to handle. The CPU's thermal protection, which activates at 80 deg. Celsius and slows down the CPU, never activated. The CPU stayed at the full 2.0 GHz the entire time.

Most Raspberry Pi's won't see all four cores pegged like that, and I suspect most won't be overclocked by an additional 33% over the factory speed. The fact that the Pi 4 can do that at a sustained rate is impressive, both for the Pi 4 and the Argon case that is keeping it cool.

Now, running the apps. I ran LibreOffice and Firefox on it. It did feel a little snappier. Watching YouTube videos in full-screen (1920x1080p), the Pi did it fine at the stock clock speed before. However, it seemed to be just a bit smoother at the overclocked speeds.

Personally, I would run the Pi 4 at its factory clock speed. But it was reassuring to know that it worked even when revved up. That bodes well for the longevity of this little handheld computer; if it does this overclocked, then at stock settings, it should last a very long time.

[the86d]

AvE (Arduino vs. Evil):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k3yufpNGYE

[Cowboy T]

Oh, dang, that's cool. Yeah, lots of things you can do with a Pi. Picked up the latest edition of MagPi magazine and saw a few things. Someone made a "Boseberry Pi" out of an old Bose iPod docking station and replaced the guts with a Pi Zero. Decked it out with his own touches, ripped a bunch of his music CD's on it, and apparently it plays excellent audio.

Yeah, it always starts with just one. Wait till you learn what you can do with the GPIO and your family might miss you.

Seems you're right. Wife picked up a Pi 3 for use as a server. I picked up a third Pi 4. All three of mine have external SATA SSD's. Wife's will get one as well.

At some point, I'll learn the GPIO and start using it for stuff. As a former electronics tech, that really does interest me as a future project.

[yellowsulphur]

Nice. With the I2C (I^2C) and SPI serial bus, pulling data from sensors and other devices isn't too difficult. C/C++ and Python are languages that I've used since many libraries are ported from Arduino and some libraries are proprietary and only in C/C++. Bash is also useful for many things like piping output to libraries such as Pandas.

To get started I recommend keeping it simple and cheap and get something like this from Sparkfun.



An SSD is best for performance but I've found these Sandisk A2 rated micro SD cards perform really well. Sequential r/w is 40 MB/sec, a Pi limitation, but small files have SSD like performance. Good for a compact form factor.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1431037-REG/sandisk_sdsqxa1_128g_a_extreme_microsd_128gb_card.html

Raspberry Pi's are neat learning tools. I just setup a four-node cluster that I'm using to learn Kubernetes and containerD. Eventually I will get a Matrix-Synapse server installed on it.