Advice on upgrading home alarm system

[Mr Malarkey]

[hermosabeach]

Different thought-

Many police agencies don't respond to alarm calls... or it is a very low priority call.....

If you call 9-1-1 and say my alarm triggered and I am getting text messages of the people in my home from my alarms camera system, the call becomes a big priority.


Non ADT alarms are good as the brain will dial out when the control panels are smashed

Motion activated camera systems are the best as they allow you to
See into your home
Verify a real event

You can also add a speaker to yell at the criminals...

Attention - male - wearing the dumb Oakland raiders cap, you are on video, I am hiding in my bedroom, cops are on the way.....

It becomes your choice if you want the crooks to stay while the cops drive to your location- urban good/ rural - maybe too long / bad idea

Or if you want to heckle them to get them to leave


Homes are easy to get into... to me.... you want to make your home look unattractive to criminals

No bushes close to windows
High visibility to anyone who looks
Alarm signs with armed guard response written on the sign.
A key pad- even a fake- wall mounted with a glowing armed light so if they can see in a window, they see an active alarm indicator


Can help with the original question.... but the $300/ year for monitoring fees might be better spent on a good camera system with email and SMS alerts

[BuddyBoy]

My current system is as follows: Main house; main panel XT50, 2 key pads, 3 wired doors, 2 wireless doors, 2 wired fire detectors, and 2 wired motion detectors. Guest house needs to be controlled separately, and currently has a keypad, a motion detector, and 1 wired door.

That's a DMP system, which I'm not familiar with at all. Wired sensors should be reusable.

You can do your guest house as a separate partition on an alarm system that supports multiple partitions. For instance, a Honeywell Vista 20p supports two partitions and a common partition. That could be something like two offices with their own partition, and a common partition for the shared lobby, but could work for your main house and guest house.

I don't see any window sensors. For my homes, window sensor + motion detector are the belt (main detection) & suspenders (backup detection).

Lyric is Honeywell's latest wireless panel, incorporating the latest alarm technology, like encryption on all the wireless sensor communication, etc. That fact that you have a good number of existing wired sensors makes me think hybrid system immediately - Honeywell Vista 20p plus say, a 6160RF keypad for communication with wireless sensors.

There's a guy at Alarm Grid named Sterling Donnelly who is pretty active on the forums. They want you to know what you want and how to install it. They are fine with helping you activate stuff you buy from them, but aren't going to help you configure your system. You might want to look at the semi-DIY approach, where they will spend all the time you need helping you pick out your equipment - but you're stuck with whatever they sell, which is usually a GE Simon panel for the basic system and Qolsys IQ panel for the deluxe (which aren't bad choices, but they are your only choice). I'm thinking companies like LiveWatch and Frontpoint.

Things I think I want to add to my current system.
1. Asset protection for my safe

To me that screams Honeywell 5870API sensor, and therefore a system compatible with 5800 series wireless sensors (Honeywell, 2GIG, Qolsys, maybe others)

2. Internet main with cell back-up

Now you're pretty much talking only systems with an Alarmnet (Honeywell) or alarm.com (GE, Qolsys, DSC, 2GIG, Honeywell with the alarm.com adapter) communicator, or one of the big national security companies. Actually, I think alarm.com is only cellular. There are some smaller providers that do dual-path (Telular), but I generally steer people away from them unless you really know what you're doing and don't need any assistance getting things set up.

3. Access to the alarm system through a phone app

Comes standard with Alarmnet or Alarm.com, though you may pay more for additional features. For instance, remote arm/disarm and system alarms come with the basic Alarmnet subscription. But it's an additional $5 to monitor status of up to 10 zones, and then another $2-3 for unlimited zones. You can still keep your bill well under $30/month including central station alarm monitoring (subtract about $8 if you self-monitor).

4. Glass break sensors

I'm not using these right now (out of laziness). If I couldn't have both, I'd rather have motion sensors over glass break sensors.

5. Garage door sensor

Absolutely. People around here are getting burglarized by having their garages opened in the middle of the night with the garage door openers they left in their car that's parked in the driveway. A tilt sensor is easier to install than a normal reed switch sensor for the garage door, though it's always going to be a wireless sensor since it's attached to the door and not the frame. Put an alarm contact on any door to the garage too.

Two different companies that provide the communication infrastructure for your alarm communicator. Alarmnet is owned by Honeywell and is Honeywell-only. Alarm.com works with everyone else, but also have a communicator that works with Honeywell systems (and which Honeywell will tell you is not guaranteed to work with their equipment).

Your alarm system sends signals over the cellular network or internet to Alarmnet or Alarm.com. If you have subscribed to central station alarm monitoring, Alarmnet or Alarm.com communicates with your alarm company's central station. You don't interact with or pay either of those companies directly - your alarm company does, when you subscribe to services using Alarmnet or alarm.com.

Alarm.com has the prettier phone app. I chose my equipment based on the capability of the H/W, and my familiarity with the programming, so I've got Honeywell equipment and went with their own communicator and Alarmnet. Even today I'd probably stick with Alarmnet rather than buy alarm.com's communicator for Honeywell systems.

[BuddyBoy]

Different thought-

Many police agencies don't respond to alarm calls... or it is a very low priority call.....

If you call 9-1-1 and say my alarm triggered and I am getting text messages of the people in my home from my alarms camera system, the call becomes a big priority.

Whether or not your local PD implements a verified response protocol is public information, and doesn't require guessing. Just ask.

Non ADT alarms are good as the brain will dial out when the control panels are smashed

ADT doesn't make any of their equipment they install. It's mostly Honeywell Vista and Lynx panels. Any all-in-one system is vulnerable to the smash attack (destroy the panel before an alarm is triggered). Smash protection (CS declares an alarm if armed system sends an open signal and no disarm, without the system triggering an alarm) insures the alarm monitoring company knows when an all-in-one system has been destroyed (when someone is dumb enough to have the main panel located near an entry). If it's offered by your alarm company, it might be few dollars extra per month.

Motion activated camera systems are the best as they allow you to

I have dozens of neighbors who have clearly visible cameras who have been burglarized. The burglars don't care here, since they know the police force is depleted, and there are only a couple burglary investigators for a city of over a million people. Even if they are caught, they're out on bail and breaking into more homes in just a few days. I rely on my security system first and cameras second.

Can help with the original question.... but the $300/ year for monitoring fees might be better spent on a good camera system with email and SMS alerts

Cameras can be an important component of home security (I have an 8 camera POE NVR system), but are not a replacement for an alarm system. Anything that doesn't work when your power and internet connection are cut isn't something you should rely on as your sole form of security.

[Mr Malarkey]

Thanks for the detailed response BuddyBoy, it was much appreciated, and has led to many hours of reading and phone calls.
I've got a question on how the Honeywell Asset protection 5870API sensor works. If someone has gotten past the door, window, glass break, and the Doberman, what can that device do?

[Flyliner]

Bought my Honeywell Lyric system from AlarmGrid. I do not have sensor wires in the walls so I had to go wireless, and wanted to do it DYI, which is why I went with the Lyric system. Chose Alarmgrid as they were very helpful on the phone and were willing to answer any questions I had. After purchase they have been very active and helpful, and respond very quickly to any questions I have. I even found a bug (not alarm system related) in the Lyric Thermostat (the Lyric alarm panel is also a smart home hub) that Alarmgrid contacted Honeywell on my behalf. Alarmgrid liaised between myself and Honeywell who will patch it in the next firmware release.

Very happy with Alarmgrid so far. Only downside I have seen is that occasionally Honeywell's servers have trouble and you can't log in to the phone app, but thats not Alarmgrids fault and it usually resolves itself in a few minutes/hours.

[BuddyBoy]

Thanks for the detailed response BuddyBoy, it was much appreciated, and has led to many hours of reading and phone calls.
I've got a question on how the Honeywell Asset protection 5870API sensor works. If someone has gotten past the door, window, glass break, and the Doberman, what can that device do?

The 5870API is normally programmed as a 24 hour "always-on" zone type, so it is always armed, no matter what the arming state of your alarm system.

So imagine you and your spouse are working in the back yard of your house doing yard chores for a couple hours, and your alarm system is disarmed. The asset protection sensor is still protecting your safe, should someone get into the unoccupied house with the disarmed security system. If they attack or try to move the safe, the alarm goes off. You're correct that it doesn't add much if the security system is already armed - it's most useful when the system isn't armed.

A determined burglar can go right through the stucco and between the studs of a stick construction house rather than break down a door or break a window. That's why I like to have motion detectors in addition to door and window sensors.

[Mr Malarkey]

Bought my Honeywell Lyric system from AlarmGrid. I do not have sensor wires in the walls so I had to go wireless, and wanted to do it DYI, which is why I went with the Lyric system. Chose Alarmgrid as they were very helpful on the phone and were willing to answer any questions I had. After purchase they have been very active and helpful, and respond very quickly to any questions I have. I even found a bug (not alarm system related) in the Lyric Thermostat (the Lyric alarm panel is also a smart home hub) that Alarmgrid contacted Honeywell on my behalf. Alarmgrid liaised between myself and Honeywell who will patch it in the next firmware release.

Very happy with Alarmgrid so far. Only downside I have seen is that occasionally Honeywell's servers have trouble and you can't log in to the phone app, but thats not Alarmgrids fault and it usually resolves itself in a few minutes/hours.

Thanks Flyliner
I'm probably going with a Lyric system also, although I have some wired contacts, I'm going to use a Honeywell 5800C2W wired to wireless conversion module, then add wireless modules for windows, smoke and glass break. I've been talking to Frank and Sterling at Alarm Grid, they have both been very helpful answering my questions.
One of my concerns is that their monthly monitoring rates seem higher than other providers.

[Mr Malarkey]

The 5870API is normally programmed as a 24 hour "always-on" zone type, so it is always armed, no matter what the arming state of your alarm system.

So imagine you and your spouse are working in the back yard of your house doing yard chores for a couple hours, and your alarm system is disarmed. The asset protection sensor is still protecting your safe, should someone get into the unoccupied house with the disarmed security system. If they attack or try to move the safe, the alarm goes off. You're correct that it doesn't add much if the security system is already armed - it's most useful when the system isn't armed.

A determined burglar can go right through the stucco and between the studs of a stick construction house rather than break down a door or break a window. That's why I like to have motion detectors in addition to door and window sensors.

Well then, if it's always on, for me the 5870API is a no brainer.

[Mr Malarkey]

That's a DMP system, which I'm not familiar with at all. Wired sensors should be reusable.

You can do your guest house as a separate partition on an alarm system that supports multiple partitions. For instance, a Honeywell Vista 20p supports two partitions and a common partition. That could be something like two offices with their own partition, and a common partition for the shared lobby, but could work for your main house and guest house.

I'm almost certainly going with a Lyric system even though they currently don't offer a separate partition. The Vista 20p seems like it might be over my head as far as programing goes. I'm told that in the near future, through a firmware upgrade that Lyric will support separate partitions. So even though it's more money, I'm hoping for longer life through firmware and software upgrades.

[Rickrock1]

New house alarm tagg

[Flyliner]

Thanks Flyliner
One of my concerns is that their monthly monitoring rates seem higher than other providers.

With Alarmgrid it's "all in". You get everything for one price, you don't have to add on features for extra cost. So, at least with the other vendors I was considering, once I added all the bells and whistles to do an apples-to-apples comparison the costs were roughly the same..

[BuddyBoy]

Well then, if it's always on, for me the 5870API is a no brainer.

It's "always on" because of the way you enroll the sensor into the system, not because of anything inherent in the sensor.

Sensors can be enrolled as any one of a couple dozen "zone types". The zone type determines the behavior when the zone is faulted. For instance, windows are normally assigned a "perimeter" type zone, while entry doors are assigned an "entry/exit" zone type. When the system is armed, perimeter zones trigger an immediate alarm, as they wouldn't be used for entry and exit, so their faulting when the system is armed is clearly not normal. On the other hand, your front door would normally have a delay, to allow you to get inside and punch in your access code to disarm the alarm. When the system is not armed, faulting these zone types doesn't trigger an alarm, but may make the keypads chime.

There are at least three different "24 hour" (always on) zone types you can choose from on a Honeywell system:

24 Hour silent - no keypad display or siren, sends report to CS
24 Hour audible - keypad display and siren, sends report to CS
24 Hour auxiliary - no keypad display or siren, sends report to CS

On a Vista or Lynx system, these are identified with two-digit codes, but on your Lyric, you will likely get these descriptions in plain english on your touchpad panel when you program it.

The first two zone types are often used with panic buttons. The second one is what I would use for a 5870API sensor. The third one behaves the same as the first, but is meant for events not requiring police or fire response, like a water (flood) sensor.