Wi-Fi solution

[DNA]

Looking to cover 1400sf single story. Was thinking of trying out I've of these new mesh network things. Either Google wifi (3 pack) or the Amplifi solution.

What say you Calguns? Or should I just get a decent cable modem and setup an AP and call it a day?

I would like solid signal in the house plus the detached garage.

Dan

[MaHoTex]

Cable Modem + TP-Link AP and call it done. 1400 sq ft is simple.

ETA: To add greater signal in the detached garage, you could get a second TP-Link AP and set it as a WDS repeater. I have this setup in my house and it covers it all with no problems.

[DNA]

Any thoughts on the Ubiquiti Unified APs?

Dan

[Casual_Shooter]

Thinking any brand name unit would work. We have an Airport Extreme that covers 1600 sq ft+ single level and garage (attached) and shed (detached) easily.

[UEDan]

Ubiquiti are great for home and small to med business setups IMO.
I'm old school and would rather run cabling to multiple APs.
Run APs to problem areas and 1 to the detached garage.

[bruss01]

Looking to cover 1400sf single story. Was thinking of trying out I've of these new mesh network things. Either Google wifi (3 pack) or the Amplifi solution.

What say you Calguns? Or should I just get a decent cable modem and setup an AP and call it a day?

I would like solid signal in the house plus the detached garage.

Dan

Our house is laid out a little funny. Its 1300 sf older construction single story.

The office where the network enters the house is away from much of the rest of the house. The bedroom has been a "dead zone" in the past because the signal had to go through a wire-rack stuffed with canned food, then the furnace/ac unit, and several interior walls.

I acquired this Amped Wireless repeater and it was easy to set up. I have one regular stick antenna on it and one directional pointing into the bedroom from a 90 degree angle that only has to go through one interior wall and a closet full of clothes.

http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/rea20.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw3s6-BRC3kKL_86XDvq4BEiQAAUqtZ8zE3AJZ7AC3mnbbtSgplH0WtXtfpPJARTzVWvyQPwUaAqLY8P8HAQ

http://hawkingtech.com/products/hawking_products/wireless_ac/HOA12DP.html

Since I have set this up the wife has had awesome reception in the bedroom and we get 5 bars in the whole house.

[bruss01]

Any thoughts on the Ubiquiti Unified APs?

Dan

I tried a Ubiquiti unit and it was a nightmare, never got it to work properly, support from the manufacturer was non-existent. If you are a pro who does wireless networking for a living you may eventually figure it out. I walked away, spent some money elsewhere, found an easy solution, and never looked back.

[Fizz]

As someone who's done 100s of wireless deployments, used spectrum analyzers to tune/tshoot and tried lots of APs and client side devices.....

It all depends. Try something and see what happens. Tweak variables until you get something that works acceptably.

There are so many variables to how well wireless works (or doesn't). Also don't forget that wireless requires communication in BOTH directions, from the Access Point to the client and client to the access point. So bigger/badder APs with massive antennas don't always equate better performance (placement is usually more important). It is possible to have performance be OK in one direction and not the other.

You also have channel selection and interference from Wi-Fi (other mobile devices, computers, Firesticks/Rokus/etc.) and potentially non-wifi devices (Ex. AV transmitters and cordless phones) that does not matter how good your equipment is. This is NOT simply a matter of selecting the channel with the least networks or furthest away from the strongest interferor(s). Meaning, your neighbor that downloads porn all day on long saturating his internet connection may cause you greater interference than your neighbor who only uses wifi to get his/her mobile devices off cellular when at home, even if the channel that cell-neighbor is on is sitting right on top of you and porn neighbor is a less strong signal channel.

Then you have non-wifi devices that you will NEVER be able to see without a spectrum analyzer. AV transmitters and Cordless phones will effectively denial of service any wifi-devices within range. It will appear as random slowness to outright extended periods where internet doesn't work.

Basically, wireless is a convenience technology in a wild west free for all fight. Don't rely on it for anything you want to be as fast and reliable as possible.

5ghz wireless is better for congestion, but unfortunately 5ghz range is more limited since it doesn't propagate through obstacles as well as 2.4.

[DNA]

As someone who's done 100s of wireless deployments, used spectrum analyzers to tune/tshoot and tried lots of APs and client side devices.....

It all depends. Try something and see what happens. Tweak variables until you get something that works acceptably.

There are so many variables to how well wireless works (or doesn't). Also don't forget that wireless requires communication in BOTH directions, from the Access Point to the client and client to the access point. So bigger/badder APs with massive antennas don't always equate better performance (placement is usually more important). It is possible to have performance be OK in one direction and not the other.

You also have channel selection and interference from Wi-Fi (other mobile devices, computers, Firesticks/Rokus/etc.) and potentially non-wifi devices (Ex. AV transmitters and cordless phones) that does not matter how good your equipment is. This is NOT simply a matter of selecting the channel with the least networks or furthest away from the strongest interferor(s). Meaning, your neighbor that downloads porn all day on long saturating his internet connection may cause you greater interference than your neighbor who only uses wifi to get his/her mobile devices off cellular when at home, even if the channel that cell-neighbor is on is sitting right on top of you and porn neighbor is a less strong signal channel.

Then you have non-wifi devices that you will NEVER be able to see without a spectrum analyzer. AV transmitters and Cordless phones will effectively denial of service any wifi-devices within range. It will appear as random slowness to outright extended periods where internet doesn't work.

Basically, wireless is a convenience technology in a wild west free for all fight. Don't rely on it for anything you want to be as fast and reliable as possible.

5ghz wireless is better for congestion, but unfortunately 5ghz range is more limited since it doesn't propagate through obstacles as well as 2.4.

Quite honestly this was the reason I thought about ponying up the money for the Google wifi units as from my understanding they constantly check and utilize the channel that works best/has less interference. That and essentially the system is plug and play, with 3 units I'm virtually assured good coverage around the entire property.

The reason I brought up the APs is I've also heard people getting great results with APs and my inner cheapskate loves more money for ammo. Sounds like they're definitely worth checking out. So it also sounds like the APs run much better when wired to the modem as well vs over at connections.

Any other suggestions for APs that are easier to setup and most importantly reliable?

At my parents house (similar setup, same builder) we've got a Netgear N300 range extender but the experience is rather middling, connectivity issues etc. I'm trying to avoid that kind of experience.

And thank you guys in advance for your input.

Dan

[Fizz]

Quite honestly this was the reason I thought about ponying up the money for the Google wifi units as from my understanding they constantly check and utilize the channel that works best/has less interference. That and essentially the system is plug and play, with 3 units I'm virtually assured good coverage around the entire property.

The reason I brought up the APs is I've also heard people getting great results with APs and my inner cheapskate loves more money for ammo. Sounds like they're definitely worth checking out. So it also sounds like the APs run much better when wired to the modem as well vs over at connections.

Any other suggestions for APs that are easier to setup and most importantly reliable?

At my parents house (similar setup, same builder) we've got a Netgear N300 range extender but the experience is rather middling, connectivity issues etc. I'm trying to avoid that kind of experience.

And thank you guys in advance for your input.

Dan

To really answer this we need to backtrack. Are you experiencing issues with a current wireless solution or are you trying to spec a new deployment?

If the former, what are the issues you're experiencing? If the latter, why do you predict that wireless will be inadequately served from a single radio? Even if your parents' house is the exact same floor plan and access point location, it doesn't mean your experience will be the same.


___
Personally I'm not a fan of mesh-type wireless. They seem to be all the rage these days but I still think in such situations where multiple radios are beneficial, do the job right and run ethernet to all the APs instead of using wireless to fix a wireless problem.

The google units are cool and their power comes not from the hardware being any better than others but in their software to auto manage the network.

Let's say you have one unit that's connected directly to your modem 'master', you then place the 2 'slave' units elsewhere in the house, halfway between spotty areas. Let's also assume that your client devices support 5ghz and 2.4ghz technologies. If the 2 slave units connect to the master with 2.4ghz for the range and obstacle penetrating qualities, and your devices connect 5ghz to the slaves for the lack of congestion, this is an ideal scenario for mesh in that the clients get on basically their own channels and you've reduced the overall volume of congested 2.4 flying through the air.

However, if your devices are 2.4, or need 2.4 because the 5ghz doesn't reach, you've basically doubled the amount of 2.4 traffic flying through the air, since in a data flow downloading a page, for example, it would go, Modem -Master (over ethernet)>Master-Slave>Slave-Client. You then have issues with cumulative latencies (the amount of time it takes for every device in the chain to communicate with each other) , etc. This can be an issue for Skype or other VOIP calls, gaming, overall responsiveness, etc. In the 2.4ghz spectrum there are only 3 channels that don't overlap, 1, 6 and 11. With a 3 radio mesh you are GOING to have co/adjacent channel interference.

To make matters worse, wireless is still a half duplex technology, meaning, if your slave is talking (sending information to a client), the devices are listening, and vice versa. You then have this same behavior between master<>slave. The reason it seems like everyone can be online at the same time is that the 802.11 standard (doesn't matter if it's a,b,g,n,ac) functions as a discussion moderator and will divide talking and listening times so that everyone gets an opportunity to speak and listen. The effect of this is cumulative. The more speakers in the forum the less time is available per ea.

My guess is you're trying to figure out what to do for new house.

Try something like this in a location central to the predicted use locations as practical. Test and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, return it and try your google units.

https://www.amazon.com/Linksys-EA6350-Wireless-Dual-Band-Anywhere/dp/B00EXK14S0%3Fpsc%3D1%26SubscriptionId%3DAKIAICE7LOAJMK3SSLPA%26tag%3Dpcm_buyitnow-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00JZWQW4C%26ascsubtag%3D98fc0108-06e7-4b9d-a4b5-cd6eb6e4d9a3?th=1

[speedrrracer]

Quite honestly this was the reason I thought about ponying up the money for the Google wifi units as from my understanding they constantly check and utilize the channel that works best/has less interference.

This does not disagree with what Fizz is saying. Some mesh devices may well optimize their performance via magic software, but that doesn't mean the resulting experience will be as enjoyable as you might wish.

To me it seems like you've got it easy. Only 1400 sq ft -- you should be swimming in signal under normal circumstances with a decent router. If you have some weird situation, like your house is 2' wide and 700 feet long, with the modem at one end and all internet activity at the other, then consider running some cable to move the modem location, esp if you're going to be in the house for a while. Nothing gets to beat the laws of physics, so placement will often win out over spending a fortune on monster hardware. You spend 300 bucks to have a pro run a bit of cable so you can move your modem and you'll save most of that because you can buy a normal 100 dollar router instead of a 300$ beast, and you'll have a much better experience, which, in the end, is worth a lot more.

The reason placement wins is twofold: reduce interference and because the 802.11 standards on which all wifi networks are built use a "positive acknowledgement" protocol. That means each data packet (or frame) that is sent must be acknowledged by the receiver via a reply back to the sender. If no acknowledgement is received, the sender will try again and again until a timeout is reached and the sender gives up and drops the connection.
So when you increase the power on a wireless router or AP, all this does is make it "shout louder". Sure, a wireless device in a dead zone may now be able to "hear" the router whereas it couldn't before. But unless the client device can shout just as loudly back, the client won't be able to communicate with the AP and the connection will be dropped or won't be made at all.

So start with something basic, maybe just that little box Fizz recommended. If everything works, Bob's your uncle. If not, consider if improving the placement of your AP is likely to help. If so, move the AP, and try again.

[bruss01]

Keep in mind that wi-fi signal waves are in the microwave range.

Yes, this is the same general range as what you use to heat soup in your microwave oven. Just a lot less powerful.

Microwave ovens work by emitting microwaves which are absorbed by water molecules in the food. The water molecules heat up inside the food, and this is what heats food without using flame or conduction. The heat only exists inside the food. As we all know, you don't put metal in a microwave because metal conducts microwaves, that's why it is used in microwave antennas.

Ok, back to wi-fi. There are two common construction scenarios where wi-fi transmission will be notoriously poor. One of those is trying to transmit through metal, and the other is trying to transmit through water. So in our particular instance, a pantry shelving unit full of canned food and then a furnace & ac unit is a "worst case scenario". BUT - a lot of people don't realize that there is a lot of water in typical home construction. For instance concrete does not dry, it "sets". As concrete hardens, the water inside it is crystalized, locked up inside the calcium compound that gives concrete it's strength. the same thing with drywall, gypsum board, and plaster. Those walls may seem "dry" but they are chock full of water molecules. Interestingly, a brick wall is less of a barrier than poured concrete because the bricks are baked literally dry, only the mortar contains water molecules.

You need to avoid trying to transmit through as much of these types of construction as possible. This might mean having a repeater at various spots in order to go around corners 90 degrees and punch straight through lesser barriers, rather than diagonal through a half-dozen sheets of plaster board.

I would expect a mesh-type network to offer very poor performance when streaming HD video for example. If you are just sending an email it would work acceptably for that application though.

[ExtremeX]

I tried a Ubiquiti unit and it was a nightmare, never got it to work properly, support from the manufacturer was non-existent. If you are a pro who does wireless networking for a living you may eventually figure it out. I walked away, spent some money elsewhere, found an easy solution, and never looked back.

If you are talking about their UniFi AP products those are very simple to setup and implement... the entire process is wizard driven with really basic information. If you can install software and setup a $50 Linksys from 10 years ago you can deploy Unifi.

If you are taking about their AirFiber or AirMax... ya, you need a bit of networking background.

Its one of those community supported brands... for they price they have to be. Go to their forums for support... they have their own "Calguns". Also don't expect Cisco level support at those price points.

That said their hardware and firmware is pretty rock solid. Some of the best "budget hardware" I have ever used.

[ExtremeX]

As someone who's done 100s of wireless deployments, used spectrum analyzers to tune/tshoot and tried lots of APs and client side devices.....

It all depends. Try something and see what happens. Tweak variables until you get something that works acceptably.

There are so many variables to how well wireless works (or doesn't). Also don't forget that wireless requires communication in BOTH directions, from the Access Point to the client and client to the access point. So bigger/badder APs with massive antennas don't always equate better performance (placement is usually more important). It is possible to have performance be OK in one direction and not the other.

You also have channel selection and interference from Wi-Fi (other mobile devices, computers, Firesticks/Rokus/etc.) and potentially non-wifi devices (Ex. AV transmitters and cordless phones) that does not matter how good your equipment is. This is NOT simply a matter of selecting the channel with the least networks or furthest away from the strongest interferor(s). Meaning, your neighbor that downloads porn all day on long saturating his internet connection may cause you greater interference than your neighbor who only uses wifi to get his/her mobile devices off cellular when at home, even if the channel that cell-neighbor is on is sitting right on top of you and porn neighbor is a less strong signal channel.

Then you have non-wifi devices that you will NEVER be able to see without a spectrum analyzer. AV transmitters and Cordless phones will effectively denial of service any wifi-devices within range. It will appear as random slowness to outright extended periods where internet doesn't work.

Basically, wireless is a convenience technology in a wild west free for all fight. Don't rely on it for anything you want to be as fast and reliable as possible.

5ghz wireless is better for congestion, but unfortunately 5ghz range is more limited since it doesn't propagate through obstacles as well as 2.4.

This guy knows what he is talking about...

[koiloco]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/netgear-nighthawk-x10-wireless-ad7200-tri-band-wi-fi-router-black/5610805.p?skuId=5610805

Try this. If it doesn't do what you are after then the solution will be a little more complicated.