Any experience with a home solar system set up?

[GeoRick]

I'm shopping around for a solar panel system for my home's roof. I live in the OC area and am wondering if anyone has had any notable experiences that they can share? Financial and time costs?

I'm thinking about either going with Sunplicity or Solarcity. But I would love to hear about others! Does anyone have any recommendations or advice regarding which company I should go for? Also, I understand that the tax incentives have also been extended for acquiring home solar systems, but I'm still wondering about the monthly costs compared with the status quo infrastructure in place.. My electric bill is about 75-140 depending on the season throughout the year, so I think I'm borderline with regards to longterm savings.

Thanks for your help people.

-Rick

[Ripon83]

I'm doubtful you will get the best price point from Solar City, but you likely will get good service. If you opt for them (if it were me) then challenge them on the price and see if you can't get it lower. Chances are you will. Even go so far to gather an agreement and ask to sit on it a few days and think on it. Let them follow up and see what incentives they might offer.

People do solar for many different reasons but the most common now is to save money. Chance are if you buy a system and have it professionally installed it will take you close to 10 years to get your money back - depending on the rates you pay now. The bill you described is much smaller then the people I helped go solar with Verengo when I worked for them; fact is with the PPA (power purchase agreement Verengo offered) if you didn't have a high tier rate it wasn't worth it.

I'm a fan of PPA's many are not. You buy power from the electric company forever; why not from your solar company for 20 years at a lower rate? All with money out of their pocket not yours. The thing is to negotiate a lower rate - you can.

A family member of mine with a $200 a month bill paid about $3k for a system from Costco, he paid $2k in permits and labor cost to get it installed for him and it will take him at least 12 years to get all his money back not including lost interest on what the money would have gotten him if invested otherwise. PPA products would not have worked for him; he was in a utility district that offered low rates so there was no real savings.

[NPFreedom]

I am in the process of getting solar panels from Solar City. I was referred by my father who had panels done at his house. You would only save if you use a lot of energy. I am in the permit process and that usually takes awhile. I have submitted all the paperwork already.

Solar City does everything for you. Once you sign up with them, they will install, provide panels and get the necessary permits.

As for pricing, I just got an electric car. I was paying $40 for So Cal Edison before my car. Then it jumped to $120. The thing with the electricity bill is that (for Edison at least), they go by Tiers.

There are 4 Tiers
Tier 1: 15 cent per kWh
Tier 2: 21 cent per kWh
Tier 3: 24 cent per kWh
Tier 4: 30 cent per kWh

When i didnt have my EV, i was paying 15 cent per kWh. I didn't realize charging it would bump me to 30 cent per kWh.

With Solar City, they will lock you in at 16 cent per kWh for 20 years. Meaning they will never increase your bill in the 20 years. So if Edison raises their rates, with Solar City you still pay 16 cent. Sidenote: my dad got his last year and he was locked in at 15 cent.

For me instead of paying Tier 4 (30 cent), I will be paying 16 cent, meaning it will cut my bill in half (or 53% to be precise).

They take care of everything for you, any repairs, installs, etc. Their customer service is really good. They keep updating me on my permits. They just called recently and told me the permits will be done on 4/25/16 and they will install on 4/27. They also have an app for you to use on your phone to monitor your electricity usage.

Also if you link your bank account for auto payments, they give you a few percent off too.

If you are interested, let me know, i can get you a referral to my rep. You don't have to commit to buy, you can just check their pricing.

[Fjold]

Right now the Public Utility Commission is developing a change to the tier rates for residential customers. They are going to a 2 tier system with a higher rate and higher base line or the first tier. No one knows what the new rates will be so you cannot go by your existing utility bill to calculate your cost saving with a solar unit. All the solar companies are going to inflate the capacity of their system (the solar systems produce the max power on cold clear days and at 90 degrees F, your can lose over 30% of the system capacity) and give you cost savings based on that and the existing power prices.

The PUC is also looking at changing the residential prices to reflect actual time of use prices so your cost for electricity will vary according to the time of day. There is currently no plan to pay you more for power that you produce during these peak times with a solar unit.

Any company that will guaranty you a cost savings will have a caveat in the contract that it will depend on the utility's current pricing structure.

Be very, very careful and never contract to pay the solar company for power directly.

[glock_this]

At what point do the energy companies kick in a "solar use" fee/tax and start to tax solar users to make back lost revenue - thereby nixing your savings?

[Maltese Falcon]

One of my combined two month water/power bill hit close to $900 one time.

That was it, our house uses a lot of energy. It only works if you use a lot and they were planning 27% compounded rate increases over the next five years.

We paid for ours as our city (Glendale) has an additional incentive when you get a system. Paid for the system with a HELOC, so interest is tax deductible.

Make sure your roofing is in tip-top shape as most good panels have a usable lifetime of 25 years. We had new roofing put on and also had to upgrade our electric panel to 200 amp service.

Location is also key, we have no shade hit it except for a small tree for part of the day.

Estimate pay back at around 6-7 years. Other things help Solar powered attic fan (have three: 2 on the house, 1 on the garage) got city/fed incentives on those as well, LED lighting just about everywhere.

[Ripon83]

NV

This already happened in Nevada. It is why Solar is in flux in NV. Its a valid point. The utilities in CA have a great deal of political might, but then so does green "solar" and so I'm not sure they win this fight outside a court room. That said they could win it in a court room. Look at their case for a second.

Their case is premised on the fact government required them to invest in hardware (distribution and production) and then government limited what they can charge for it. Now solar comes along and they aren't even going to get paid for it what they thought they would. Chances are VERY GOOD they win their case.

Fortunately even if they win - they get only what they would have gotten for the distribution and production costs and not any more. Unless they buy a judge to give them some kind of punitive or retro payment. Sorry I'm scaring the solar people I know it.

At what point do the energy companies kick in a "solar use" fee/tax and start to tax solar users to make back lost revenue - thereby nixing your savings?

[GeoRick]

Interesting.. Maybe I don't have the need for it just yet.. and I never thought about the roof condition needing to be tip top before installation can happen. I will have to look at roof again and reassess my electrical needs. I have a plug in hybrid car that I don't often charge because gas has been reasonable, but I can see my bill going up slightly when I start to charge the car more. I spoke with a guy from Solplicity (not sunplicity) who described a setup where your bill is lowered to the first tier prices, but you don't own the panels. But they give you the option to buy the panels every 5 years if you wanted to in the future..

Ill have to figure out more of the longterm effects apparently. Thanks for the input guys, I'll report back what I hear from the solplicity guy next week sometime, I've got a consultation appt set.. Thanks for your input people!

[Michael in California]

I have paid-for solar on my house. Certainly the most expensive way up front, but I believe its the best way going forward.

For where I live and how I live, it works for me. No PPA, and essentially no bill from So Cal. Edison. I'm billed some token amount for taxes that averages less than $1. I also over produce a tad and they pay me like $80 per year in overage.

My average bill was $15 before. I'll pay off in under 4 years, but it was a self install, so no labor. I'd estimate 6 years if I'd have paid labor.

I'm a big fan of home solar if the economics works for you. But the economics is absolutely critical to calculate correctly.

As a rule, power cost will never go down, so I figure I'll fix my cost today and I'm good for about the next 20 years with minimal maintenance. Then, I start over with even cheaper solar technology.

[MaHoTex]

I am in the process of getting solar panels from Solar City. I was referred by my father who had panels done at his house. You would only save if you use a lot of energy. I am in the permit process and that usually takes awhile. I have submitted all the paperwork already.

Solar City does everything for you. Once you sign up with them, they will install, provide panels and get the necessary permits.

As for pricing, I just got an electric car. I was paying $40 for So Cal Edison before my car. Then it jumped to $120. The thing with the electricity bill is that (for Edison at least), they go by Tiers.

There are 4 Tiers
Tier 1: 15 cent per kWh
Tier 2: 21 cent per kWh
Tier 3: 24 cent per kWh
Tier 4: 30 cent per kWh

When i didnt have my EV, i was paying 15 cent per kWh. I didn't realize charging it would bump me to 30 cent per kWh.

With Solar City, they will lock you in at 16 cent per kWh for 20 years. Meaning they will never increase your bill in the 20 years. So if Edison raises their rates, with Solar City you still pay 16 cent. Sidenote: my dad got his last year and he was locked in at 15 cent.

For me instead of paying Tier 4 (30 cent), I will be paying 16 cent, meaning it will cut my bill in half (or 53% to be precise).

They take care of everything for you, any repairs, installs, etc. Their customer service is really good. They keep updating me on my permits. They just called recently and told me the permits will be done on 4/25/16 and they will install on 4/27. They also have an app for you to use on your phone to monitor your electricity usage.

Also if you link your bank account for auto payments, they give you a few percent off too.

If you are interested, let me know, i can get you a referral to my rep. You don't have to commit to buy, you can just check their pricing.

I think you need to research this a little more. Your bill is not going to be cut in half.

With the non-solar tier system, you do not pay Tier 4 prices on all the power, only the power which has exceeded the allocation from Tier 1,2 and 3.

[Maltese Falcon]

Forgot to add, because the panels themselves shield your roof from direct sun, attic space temp goes down in the summer, so less electricity is needed for cooling inside the house.

It is noticeable.

.

[Ripon83]

Anyone building a house today that isn't placing the roofline to a perfect pitch and azimuth is just ignorant.

A small PPA system is great for someone that uses a lot of high tier power, and not anyone else. If you don't use the top tier just buy a small system.

[command_liner]

The California (and Oregon) solar tax credit programs are not worth the hassle.
Buy good quality equipment, install it yourself and take the federal tax credit.
Grape solar sells Enphase parts you can assemble piecemeal.

If you can install Christmas lights, you can install the modern solar panels.

I just took my third round of federal tax credits. Maxed out this year.

[Darklyte27]

Our Electricity bill was 45$ avg before solar. Single Story home 3 bed 2 bath Paid 5500$ 1500 watt system from Petersen Dean, tax credit was not full 30% because we had it installed in April or so. Our bill monthly would be about 8$ a month after solar. 6 Panels.

[bool1tholz]

At what point do the energy companies kick in a "solar use" fee/tax and start to tax solar users to make back lost revenue - thereby nixing your savings?

This already happened in Nevada. It is why Solar is in flux in NV. Its a valid point.
...

There's an article in current "The Sunday" free magazine about the Nevada solar situation.

http://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2016/may/30/nv-energy-solar-rates-puc/#

The numbers show that rooftop solar is dead in Nevada, the PUC made it cost prohibitive.

Don't solar die in California but it could happen unless people fight vigorously for it.