Hard/Fast rules for OLL travel

[Matt C]

It seems there has been another very avoidable arrest related to the OLL issue. While we know our firearms are legal, local police may not. So here are BWO's rules on how not to get arrested when traveling with an OLR or any firearm.

1. Don't break traffic laws while traveling with OLLs.

2.Do not have firearms or obvious firearm cases in plain sight. Do not have other items/stickers/clothing on your person or vehicle that would indicate firearm possession. This is a good idea in any case, you don't want to advertise to criminals either.

3. If stopped, signal and pull over promptly to a safe spot. Remain seated with your hands on the wheel. If it is night/dark, turn on your interior light and do not reach for anything (including wallet or registration/insurance papers) intill instructed to do so by the peace officer. When he/she asks, inform him/her that you will be getting them out of x area and ask if it's ok. Be VERY polite and sincere. Do not make excuses for whatever violation you are accused of, nor should you admit to any violation. Simply remain silent, or state something like "I understand officer/deputy/patrolman."

3.This is MOST FREAKING IMPORTANT! If asked any questions about the contents of your vehicle, or if you will permit a search, the ONLY answer is NO. You will not tell him what's in there as it is your private stuff, and you will not let him search for the same reasons. Say so respectfully not arrogantly. You never know what is really in your car unless you watch it 24/7 and no one is in it but you. Why invite trouble? Of course if you are carrying OLLs, than you already know there could be trouble.

While some OLL arrests were due mainly to unusual circumstances many others came from simple traffic stops and probably could have been avoided. Also, following the above is likely as anything to get you out of a ticket for whatever you were stopped for, since you will probably be the most pleasant traffic stop that cop has had all day.

ETA:

One other thing to watch out for would be if an LEO were to ask "do you mind if I search you vehicle?" Your first instinct would be to respond with a big fat "no" but now you have just told the LEO that you do not mind if they search your vehicle. Some people are naturally nervous or uneasy when confronted by law enforcement and can very easily make a mistake when responding to their questions.

An attorney once told me the best response to give a LEO when confronted with any kind of question asking for consent to search a vehicle would be "You may not search my vehicle." Simple, to the point, and very little chance to be misconstrued.

[Soldier415]

The above is excellent information.

[TonyNorCal]

This is an excellent post. Great advice.

I agree that living in California one should think through how they'd handle a traffic stop while transporting firearms. It's sad that such is the case, but that's reality.

This doesn't mean you should get paranoid or obsess, but having thought over what you'd say (or not say) and how you'd act is good idea.

I just know from past traffic stops (no firearms on board) that treating an officer with respect and remaining calm is the best way to go.

[M. Sage]

Stuck the thread for you.

Know your rights, and know your answers ahead of time. Role-play it out with someone if you have to.

Where is that ACLU video when you need it?

[Ironchef]

I am under the impression that cops do NOT need probable cause to search your car..especially after the patriot act. They can search for any reason they deem necessary. Am I wrong?

[mecam]

They need PC to search without permission.

I am under the impression that cops do NOT need probable cause to search your car..especially after the patriot act. They can search for any reason they deem necessary. Am I wrong?

[M. Sage]

Yes, they need PC, a warrant, or permission to search your car. They'll tell you otherwise trying to get permission, though.

[bwiese]

Good points all, by someone who's BTDT.

There's no need to push things just to brazenly assert RKBA. Discretion is sensibility.

I will quote (approximately) 'AR15fan' (a SoCal cop on AR15.COM): "It's legal to drive with a dead hooker in your trunk if your taillights and turn signals work OK."

[Ford8N]

A sad commentary about this state when we are scared of the police when we have done nothing illegal.

[N6ATF]

I am under the impression that cops do NOT need probable cause to search your car..especially after the patriot act. They can search for any reason they deem necessary. Am I wrong?

They can SAY they can do anything... doesn't mean they actually CAN do anything.

[Matt C]

A sad commentary about this state when we are scared of the police when we have done nothing illegal.

Who is scared? This is about being prudent.

[metalhead357]

Good advice to a point.....

If the officer asks though if you have weapons in the car? The Penal Code already GIVES the officer the authority to perform a *safety check* and does not need your OK......

So lying to the cop aint an option...if he smells it out and does the search you're screwed; So what's the best way to handle THAT specific scenario?

[Matt C]

Good advice to a point.....

If the officer asks though if you have weapons in the car? The Penal Code already GIVES the officer the authority to perform a *safety check* and does not need your OK......

So lying to the cop aint an option...if he smells it out and does the search you're screwed; So what's the best way to handle THAT specific scenario?

What PC?

And I never said lie to the cops...

[M. Sage]

It's in 12031, IIRC. It's a total BS law that violates 4th Amendment.

Found it: 12031(e). Only applies if they have reasonable cause to believe that you have a firearm. Basically, they have to see a gun, or a case that obviously contains one.

In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for
the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized
to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in
a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.
Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this
section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this
section.

[Matt C]

It's in 12031, IIRC. It's a total BS law that violates 4th Amendment.

Found it: 12031(e). Only applies if they have reasonable cause to believe that you have a firearm. Basically, they have to see a gun, or a case that obviously contains one.

(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

That's not even exactly allowing a search in itself. But in any case, this does not allow search without PC.