DOJ CLARIFICATION

[Red_5]

Email en route.

Thank you.

[MonsterMan]

MonsterMan Grip Opinion attempts

Do you guys want to know my attempts to get an "opinion" for my grip from CA DOJ BOF? It has been an ongoing process since May of 2006. A year and a half of trying and still no cooperation or answer!

1st attempt:
Sent a picture of grip on rifle to Ignatius Chin and spoke with him for about 1/2 hour talking about it and various other things. He told me it was a "protruding grip". I replied that it did not allow for a "pistol style grasp" and it was not a "pistol grip". He then just told me "it was up to the 58 DA's to decide".

2nd attempt:
I contacted TMLLP and they helped me put a letter together requesting that the DOJ give clarification on this matter. The DOJ's response was "we no longer give "individuals" opinion letters and we now only deal with Manufacturers and Law Enforcement".

3rd attempt:
After a lot of working the phones (and the help of TMLLP) I got a major Manufacturer to build a CA compliant rifle with the MMG on it and send it in to the CA DOJ. But before they could send it, the DOJ told them that they no longer give opinions to Manufacturers. The DOJ told them that they were now going to put together a "brochure" and outline what is and is not legal in the state and that the Manufacturers would simply have to refer to that "brochure" and they would not have to submit the rifle to the DOJ for clarification as to whether the gun in question was CA legal or not. Needless to say, I lost the cooperation of that Manufacturer.

4th attempt:
I called the Los Angeles District attorneys office and spoke with an investigator there for quite a while and he told me that I would have to ask the DOJ about the legalities of the grip. I told him the story about my attempts to get them to give an opinion on my product and he said he couldn't help me.


5th attempt:
This is an ongoing attempt. I have called on my own many times throughout this time and asked DOJ about my grip and they act like they have never had the opportunity to review the grip and give a clarification on it. I ask if they know about it and they reply that they do, but they can't comment on its legality. They just say that their department has not approved any off-list devices. I ask if they plan on reviewing it and they say "NO"! It's funny, early on their was some phone staffers there that were recommending my grip because of there push of the "fixed mag" Memo that was out. But now it has switched to a firm "we have not approved anything" and thats it.


So yeah, I have had some experiences trying to get the DOJ to give clarification on these issues. They will not cooperate. It's not like they have not had the opportunity to give their opinion.

I know I don't need their permission to sell my product. I know it is legal. The only reasons I want to give their opinion is to rest the minds of the gun owner who has purchased my product and the gun owner who is on the fence about the issue. Also, it would save a lot of grief if for some reason a uninformed LEO makes a wrongful arrest because he saw a "Black Rifle" in someones possession.

Here is the letter that was sent to the DOJ asking for clarification on the MMG. It was never answered.


Again, I want to thank TMLLP for all of their help and guidance. They are really great guys.

Clinton
MonsterMan Grips

[shark92651]

Does anybody have a copy of Evan's "approval letter" for his welded magwell on-list rifles? I'd like to see that. I have also decided to start a DOJ letter writing campaign myself, although from what Clinton has shown above it seems that it will be less than satisfying. I'll do it anyway.

[MonsterMan]

Here is the Letter that Evans Gunsmithing received from Iggy at the DOJ.

Hope it helps you.

[shark92651]

Thanks. Man, what a bunch of gobbledegook in that approval letter. I just looked all through the Assault Weapons Identification guide and I can't find mention of a "Stoner X-15 series" rifle anywhere

[Ford8N]

I think the DOJ does not want to give opinions now. AM gave her opinion about OLL's and it opened the flood gates. So this is a good thing to ask them. Everyone should be writing the DOJ for their opinions. Send it certified mail followed up with a fax and phone call. If you can afford it, on a Law firms letter head.

After all, they are government employees and work for the tax payer, right?

[Crazed_SS]

Thanks. Man, what a bunch of gobbledegook in that approval letter. I just looked all through the Assault Weapons Identification guide and I can't find mention of a "Stoner X-15 series" rifle anywhere

I mentioned this earlier, but it seems the DOJ is still hung up on the whole "series" thing.

Here's a letter a guy wrote a year ago asking about a Saiga..

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=235842&highlight=saiga+doj

Dear Mr. Chow,

Your request for information has been received and reviewed. All "AK
series" weapons are banned in California regardless on make and model.
Please do not hesitate to contact the Firearms Division at (916)
263-4887 if you have any further questions or concerns.

Sincerely,

Nate Barrell, Analyst
Firearms Division

>>> Sally Carney 09/13/06 2:14 PM >>>


>>> <manwah@gmail.com> 6/29/2006 8:06 PM >>>
Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by
(manwah@gmail.com) on Friday, June 30, 2006 at 03:06:16
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Kevin Chow
Telephone:
feedback: Department of the Attorney General:

I am considering the purchase of a European American Armory Saiga
7.62x39mm rifle but would first like to ensure that it is legal for me
to do so as a resident of the state of California.

The rifle in question:

EAA European American Armory Corp.
402 Richard Road
Rockledge, FL. 32955

Make: Saiga 16.5" Barrel, Sporting Rifle
Caliber: 7.62x39mm
Pistol Grip: NO. Hunting stock only.
Bayonet Lug: NO.
Detachable Magazine: YES, 10RND.
Flash Suppressor: NO.
Threaded Barrel: NO.
Action: Semi-automatic, gas-piston

The Saiga rifle in question was manufactured by Izmash and imported
through EAA Corp. It is NOT imported by Kalashnikov USA, and therefore
is not listed under the Roberti-Roos list.

Nor does this rifle have the characteristics necessary to be deemed
"assault weapon" under CA law.

Then, is this rifle legal for me to purchase and own in california?

And, if it is, will I be allowed to register it should it one day be
added to the Roberti-Roos list?

Sincerely,
Kevin Chow

ps: I am of course a law-abiding citizen and there is nothing that
prevents me from being able to legally own any otherwise
California-legal firearm.

Someone should send them a letter saying, "Let it go.. live in the NOW man!"

[buff_01]

Emailed them regarding my SAIGA rifle.

[JCG]

I e-mailed them as well

[vf111]

Donation coming via US Mail.....

[chico.cm]

Cool.

[ShootsStraight]

response to request for information

I can give you some information regarding your request #1.
I have a few letters from the Ca Dept. of Justice when I asked for specific information regarding the legality of stripped AR-15 type lower receivers. I can give you my requests to them, and the DOJ's replies. I saved all this information. I am somewhat reluctant to join a lawsuit against the DOJ, as I don't need the problems they could bring. (losing my rifles). I really dont want to use my name, or give the forwarded emails they sent me to you. I dont want the DOJ tracing it back to me. I can tho, give you everything that was in the letters. e-mail me at zfishlover@aol.com. Good luck with your efforts. -ShootsStraight

[bwiese]

ShootStraight,

Your concerns are not warranted - as these will likely be exposed in the future anyway. This is just 'getting set up', "ducks in a row", etc.
If you examine the NRA's submissions to the Aug 16 and Nov 1 2007 DOJ comment submission hearings/acceptance periods about redefinition of term 'detachable magazine', you will see that NRA indirectly got access to a variety of DOJ letters anyway.

No one will come to your door - especially due to an inquiry letter like this.

You also likely would not be joining any prospective lawsuit. That'd be NRA and a few key affected people, maybe a 'class'. But "Mr. Straight Shooter, Jr." won't be on it.

[kakpataka]

Hi..............What the status on this suit? Any updates pls?

[socalguns]

Lets see thread started 11-14, today is 11-20,
the status is 2 WEEEKS