First amendment rights... Against Calgunners? WTF

[Stormfeather]

Who0oOHo0HoO

Free Post Bump Of 1. . .!


Oh yea, to the OP. . .LOL, . . . seriously?

[RideIcon]

Example: Facebook can't tell people not to cuss, but instead the can take a single letter out of that one or more word(s) and replace it with a star sign.

You're new to this aren't you?

facebook does that as a policy, not because it's law.

you do not own this forum, or its host, but you are allowed to post here by the owner.

If someone stuck a large penis sticker on your car, do you think it would be illegal to peal it off?

[RomanDad]

If someone stuck a large penis sticker on your car, do you think it would be illegal to peal it off?

Best analogy ever.

[balzak]

OK, what if you have a beautiful piece of property that you have enjoyed and developed for 20 years and are planning to retire there. And your neighbor dies and his heirs sell his property to Acme Chemical Corporation and they put up a huge chemical plant and start sending noxious, gasping fumes your way and dumping their chemical waste into the river upstream of your property killing all of the fish and trees along the river? Your daughter's family lives with you and she gives birth to a baby with three eyes.

Will you attack Acme Chemical's property rights and start trying to tell them what they can and can't do with their property? No, no that would be immoral.

On the other hand, what if the air and the river is shared in common by everyone (foul socialist idea!) and it's against the law to destroy the commons?

How does this fit with your concept of absolute private property ownership?

Good question, and I hope I address it adequately as there is a strong case for property rights being safeguards for the environment. Sounds crazy at first, but hear me out.

Acme Chemical is the one infringing upon your property rights. They are essentially causing property damage by polluting your land and air and decimating the value of your property on top of that. It's no different than someone coming onto your property and destroying your valuables. Therefore, you could sue them for damages. You could essentially have them pay to have your property restored to the previous condition (clean air, water, soil). Of course, this would likely put Acme out of business and your problem would be solved. In a society where property rights are protected in such a way, Acme would have never bothered putting their factory there as it would have obviously been unprofitable.

Of course, my explanation is very crude and basic. If you're interested, there are far more qualified folks out there who discuss the many intricacies involved in protecting property rights. There are strong arguments for the idea that property rights, in the absence of the EPA and similar government intervention, could do an efficient job in protecting the environment in whole without necessitating a government environmental gestapo (aka EPA).

I guess you could credit the industrial revolution for the lack of respect for property rights when it comes to pollution. It hit so hard and fast and so much wealth was being made that people never really considered the implications of property rights and pollution.

Remember, rights are only "absolute" so long as you do not infringe on the rights of others. I can swing my fist all I want so long as I don't hit someone in the face outside of defending my safety or property (unless they consented ).

[Decoligny]

You're new to this aren't you?

facebook does that as a policy, not because it's law.

you do not own this forum, or its host, but you are allowed to post here by the owner.

If someone stuck a large penis sticker on your car, do you think it would be illegal to peal it off?

If it were a sticker with a graphic of a large penis, I would remove it.

If is were simply a bumber sticker with the words "Large Penis", I might be tempted to leave it on as an advertisement.

[balzak]

If it were a sticker with a graphic of a large penis, I would remove it.

If is were simply a bumber sticker with the words "Large Penis", I might be tempted to leave it on as an advertisement.

Driving around with a big c**k on your car might advertise the "wrong" message if you know what I mean . Unless you do get down like that, which is fine.

[Nick1236]

If it hasnt been posted yet:

[CaliforniaLiberal]

..... It's no different than someone coming onto your property and destroying your valuables. Therefore, you could sue them for damages. You could essentially have them pay to have your property restored to the previous condition (clean air, water, soil). Of course, this would likely put Acme out of business and your problem would be solved. In a society where property rights are protected in such a way, Acme would have never bothered putting their factory there as it would have obviously been unprofitable..........

OK, that's pretty good. Enforcing property rights vs Environmental Regulation.

But what if Acme is a $10 Billion a year Multinational Mega Corporation and they have herds of fierce and angry lawyers to call upon at need. At the very least they could drag out a law suit for many years, perhaps bankrupting you with legal fees.

And what if Acme exercises their freedom of speech to donate tens of millions of dollars to the appropriate political candidates and tilt the playing field against you.

Are you familiar with General Electrics 25 year fight to avoid cleaning up the PCBs it dumped into the Hudson River. 25 years.

[jtv3062]

Looks like a lot of "circus" is Going on in this thread

[balzak]

OK, that's pretty good. Enforcing property rights vs Environmental Regulation.

1. But what if Acme is a $10 Billion a year Multinational Mega Corporation and they have herds of fierce and angry lawyers to call upon at need. At the very least they could drag out a law suit for many years, perhaps bankrupting you with legal fees.

2. And what if Acme exercises their freedom of speech to donate tens of millions of dollars to the appropriate political candidates and tilt the playing field against you.

Are you familiar with General Electrics 25 year fight to avoid cleaning up the PCBs it dumped into the Hudson River. 25 years.

While valid concerns, I'd say these issues are outside the realm of property rights. Again, I'm far from the best source out there to come up with solutions, but I'll throw some of what I've got out there.

1. For one, sending out hoards of lawyers against every property owner effected would be very expensive. Aside from that, this issue could be handled many different ways. The main problem would be immoral laws that should be overturned and corrupt judges which should be dealt with (criminally charged, hanged, use your imagination) which would allow these companies to be successful in court.

2. This problem is corporatism. A very big issue that we have today. We would need to come up with a way of identifying and dealing with (see above in regards to judges) politicians who are corrupt. However, corporatism is only able to flourish because politicians are able to enact laws which are contrary to to the philosophies of liberty.

Corporations use government as an instrument of "evil" because of the power and authority it possesses. If we can't stop corporations from corrupting the government, the best we can do is limit the power at the source.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

I have thought that Corporatism is the logical end point of elevating Property Rights and the pernicious root of much of what ails our country today.

Giving the Corporation the rights of personhood, claiming that a Corporation has equal claim to the Rights of Individuals protected by the Constitution is the death knell of our Freedom and Participatory Democracy, IMHO.

I agree that property rights are important to our democracy also. It's a tangled problem to sort out the lines between the rights and responsibilities of the individual and the collective. I strongly believe that corporations and capitalism have their just place in the scheme of things, just not running free and unregulated. Time and time again to our sorrow we have seen how poorly unregulated capitalists regulate themselves.

[Fjold]

Take your discussion of property rights and corporatism someplace else please.

There is way too much win in this thread to be distracted by serious discussions.

[grymster]

Take your discussion of property rights and corporatism someplace else please.

There is way too much win in this thread to be distracted by serious discussions.

QFT.... but understand that some people are just itching to get their swipes in at whatever it is that actually makes (made?) this country work.

Now then, where is our implacable OP?

[TNP'R]

[leelaw]

At least he didn't start another FMK thread.

Never go full guntard.