Pistol Lowers

[JandJArmory]

Does anyone know the procedure for registering a oll as a pistol?

[aplinker]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=115364

Current understanding is that you can't buy a stripped lower and build a pistol on it, unless your purchases are exempt from the certified roster.

You can either build it yourself (from a flat or forging) or buy a complete single-shot pistol. Once you have purchased/built your single shot pistol there are no restrictions preventing you from having it in any legal (non-AW, non-SBR) configuration.

[Futurecollector]

Oh ive seen a shop that had on hand a complete pistol kit (minus lower) and when someone gets one in they can build it dros it then take off the shops stuff and wait till more funds come in, From what i have heard/read its legal... do you have any clarification on that?

[NSR500]

Like uclaplinker said... Buy a Complete Single Shot from someone like Freakshow or Build one yourself from a forging.

[Quiet]

Oh ive seen a shop that had on hand a complete pistol kit (minus lower) and when someone gets one in they can build it dros it then take off the shops stuff and wait till more funds come in, From what i have heard/read its legal... do you have any clarification on that?

Legal for a Type 07 FFL, not really legal for a Type 01 FFL.

Stripped reciever comes into inventory and a complete pistol leaves inventory, signals to the BATFE that the FFL is manufacturing a firearm.
Unlesss, the FFL is a Type 07, BATFE may come down on the FFL dealer with fines and/or pulling their FFL.

[Ford8N]

I can kind of understand no stripped pistol receivers. And I understand a single shot pistol. But when does it become a WORKING single shot pistol. How much work needs to be done? Say a person wanted to import a NDS-6 pistol receiver. What if the well had a sled installed with out all the rest of the parts. Is there something on the books that only WORKING single shot pistols can be imported and bypass the so called drop test?

[sureshot]

Bad news

The unfortunate reality is there is no way an individual can legally assemble a pistol or handgun out of a rifle receiver.

When a firearm is manufactured by a licensed manufacturer, the paperwork submitted to BATFE states whether it is a rifle, pistol or shotgun.

Assembling it with less than 16" barrel constitutes manufacturing a short barreled rifle under federal law.

The way around this in "Free America" (other than California) is to purchase a lower that was manufactured as a pistol. Examples of this are: Olympic Arms OA-93 which is manufactured as a pistol. Any manufacturer could manufacturer a lower as a pistol, it is merely a paperwork issue, but one that can land you in jail if violated.

In CA, there is no way legal way to transfer from a dealer to an individual a handgun stripped lower. If one existed in the state, conceivably a private party could transfer one to another individual, but assembling it could make it an assault weapon.

Jabie Gray
Discount Gun Mart
San Diego

[bwiese]

Jabie's post above is not-quite-right in several areas.

Yes, you can't make a pistol out of a *rifle* receiver. That just means the receiver had been a rifle at one time; it doesn't apply to a virgin receiver.

Bare virgin off-list AR receivers that have never been assembled into rifles can be made into AR pistols without worry about Federal SBR status ("Pistol" marking, or lack thereof, on receiver is irrelevant). Just no buttstock, forward grip etc on pistols to stay out of NFA territory.

The 4473 transfer chain for such receivers should also never reflect that it's a rifle, but instead is a standard Title I 'firearm'/noted as bare receiver.

Yes, bare pistol receivers cannot be imported by FFLs due to CA 'safe handgun Roster' - imported guns must be either Rostered, or exempt (dimensionally compliant single-action revolver, single-shot pistol). [We'll ignore for this discussion the LEO exemption to Rostering, and the relatively few folks moving into CA with legit OLL AR pistol receivers or non-AW AR pistols who can transfer them to others via PPT.]

Californians wanting a non-AW off-list AR pistol have cooperative, knowledgable FFLs import them from reliable sources such as Freakshow Mfg, CWS, etc. via use of the 12133PC 'single shot pistol' exemption - and having a 6" min bbl length + 10.5" min overall length. The pistol is rendered single-shot by using a 'sled' single-shot mag replacement locked in (designed for 80gr VLD bullets that don't feed in AR mags) - with the gas tube removed and the front gas block port plugged with ~1/2" piece of gas tube pinned in upside down. This renders the gun a non-AW pistol exempt from Rostering due to single-shot status. [Note that there is no requirement of permanence in single-shot status or single-action revolver status: such conditions, just like caliber, bbl length, rimfire vs centerfire are all changeable and are not restricted.]

The purchaser, after DROS and 10 day wait and pickup, can then convert the AR pistol into any other legal non-AW form (i.e, 10rd fixed magazine).

[leelaw]

Jabie's post above is not-quite-right in several areas.

Yes, you can't make a pistol out of a *rifle* receiver. That just means the receiver had been a rifle at one time; it doesn't apply to a virgin receiver.

Bare virgin off-list AR receivers that have never been assembled into rifles can be made into AR pistols without worry about Federal SBR status ("Pistol" marking, or lack thereof, on receiver is irrelevant). Just no buttstock, forward grip etc on pistols to stay out of NFA territory.

The 4473 transfer chain for such receivers should also never reflect that it's a rifle, but instead is a standard Title I 'firearm'/noted as bare receiver.

Sorry guys, Bill's a bit off on this one.

It is a manufacturer, and not the FFL, who determines if that bare receiver is a rifle or a pistol.

From the other thread on this issue:

I think many mfgrs do not classify their bare receivers as either, just as Title1 firearms.

According to manufacturers that I've spoken to, they do.

One such manufacturer:

In order to legally build an AR type pistol, per Federal Law, you MUST use a receiver that was made and logged into the manufacturers book as a pistol. You may not simply “convert” a regular AR receiver into a pistol, to do so is a violation of Federal Law. Some unknowing (or unscrupulous) gun dealers will incorrectly tell you that they can “register” or “log” an AR lower on the Federal ATF Form #4473 (The big form you fill out at the dealer when you buy a gun). The “4473” is a record of transfer, NOT a record of manufacturer or change in type of weapon. Marking the 4473 as “pistol” when in fact a “rifle” receiver is being transferred is a violation of Federal Law. If you want an AR pistol, you need to buy a properly built, logged and transferred pistol receiver.

http://anvilarms.com/pc-326-19-regis...-receiver.aspx

[bwiese]

I never said the 4473/FFL exclusively determines rifle vs pistol - what I was trying to say is that that particular downstream papering process should not 'corrupt' any prior virgin or pistol status!

And, yes, I do indeed believe there are lower mfgrs that log bare lowers as just frame/receiver, and not as a rifle or pistol. There are likely tax implications for this: a mfgr does not wanna pay tax, and receivers are not completed guns for Pitman-Robertson.

And I know it's important to track down bare virgin 870, etc. receivers with which to make AOWs: those *can't* be GCA68-defined shotguns so it'd be important to have a clear categorization for those receivers.

[leelaw]

I never said the 4473/FFL exclusively determines rifle vs pistol - what I was trying to say is that that particular downstream papering process should not 'corrupt' any prior virgin or pistol status!

And, yes, I do indeed believe there are lower mfgrs that log bare lowers as just frame/receiver, and not as a rifle or pistol. There are likely tax implications for this: a mfgr does not wanna pay tax, and receivers are not completed guns for Pitman-Robertson.

And I know it's important to track down bare virgin 870, etc. receivers with which to make AOWs: those *can't* be GCA68-defined shotguns so it'd be important to have a clear categorization for those receivers.

Correct on keeping the 4473 and bound book chain labeled properly.

As for the receivers, they are marked as rifle, pistol, or other. Generally rifle, since that's what most of them finish life as.

[ke6guj]

I never said the 4473/FFL exclusively determines rifle vs pistol - what I was trying to say is that that particular downstream papering process should not 'corrupt' any prior virgin or pistol status!

exactly, if the manufacturer listed in his books as a bare receiver, but a downstream FFL logged it as a "rifle" even though it was still a bare receiver, then proving that when you got it, it was still a virgin receiver would be tough.

And I know it's important to track down bare virgin 870, etc. receivers with which to make AOWs: those *can't* be GCA68-defined shotguns so it'd be important to have a clear categorization for those receivers.

exactly. I've seen a couple people selling used PG-only Mossbergs for cheap, way less than buying one new. But that wouldn't be a smart AOW host-gun since you don't know the history of it. It may have been sold as stocked shotgun, or had a stock attached at some point.

I know M24 requires the box of any host gun show that it was a PG-only shotgun in order to AOW it.

[freakshow10mm]

Sorry guys, Bill's a bit off on this one.

It is a manufacturer, and not the FFL, who determines if that bare receiver is a rifle or a pistol.

From the other thread on this issue:

With all due respect to Anvil Arms, I do not agree with that opinion. I've yet to see in any federal law where you cannot take a virgin bare receiver and not make a pistol out of it.

There are likely tax implications for this: a mfgr does not wanna pay tax, and receivers are not completed guns for Pitman-Robertson.

The FET is the same for bare receivers as it is for complete firearms. If it has a serial number on it, it's a firearm and if the manufacturer makes 50 or more of them then FET is due. If all I do is make lowers receivers, after 50 receivers tax is due because they are firearms but firearms other than a shotgun, rifle or pistol (hence the 21yo + requirement).

[leelaw]

With all due respect to Anvil Arms, I do not agree with that opinion. I've yet to see in any federal law where you cannot take a virgin bare receiver and not make a pistol out of it.

If it's registered as a rifle, it's not exactly your "virgin bare receiver" is it?

When we create a firearm it must be registered as something, and the paperwork reflects it. Building a pistol from a registered rifle receiver won't fly on an audit.

[ke6guj]

The FET is the same for bare receivers as it is for complete firearms. If it has a serial number on it, it's a firearm and if the manufacturer makes 50 or more of them then FET is due. If all I do is make lowers receivers, after 50 receivers tax is due because they are firearms but firearms other than a shotgun, rifle or pistol (hence the 21yo + requirement).

Adam, you may want to further research that. AFAIK, only complete firearms have FET due. What percentage do you pay on stripped receivers if they are neither a handgun or longgun, 10% or 11%.

OK, found this:

5. Where does FAET not apply?

FAET does not apply to:Individual parts of firearms such as :

Frames
Receivers
Barrels
Magazines
Sights

[Refer to 27 CFR 53.61(b)(5)(ii) ]

http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/faqs.shtml