legality of hypothetical situation

[sn0rky]

ok so i live in san francisco and as many of you know we dont have lawns. so, hypothetical situation. what if somebody were visiting me and some thugs approach him in an attempt to rob him. if i were to run out with a firearm in hand what repercussions would i be worrying about?
brandishing a weapon?
or would it constitute self defense in this liberal city?

[Bruce3]

if that somebody is your friend do what you got to do.. i doubt anyone thinks about the law when their friend and or loved ones are in imminent danger.

[gcvt]

I live in the city too and wonder about these things all the time. Could it even be considered self defense if it's your guest that was in danger, and not you....until you ran outside?

[bruss01]

A hostile DA would probably try to say that you "escallated" the situation. He would say you were safe and only one person was at risk, you could have called 911... instead, you left the safety of your home, put twice as many people at risk, introduced a gun into a situation where the bad guy could have gotten ahold of it or some innocent bystander might have been plugged by a wayward shot... the list goes on. If memory serves there was a case in SF not long ago where a guy came home, found a bad guy in his house, overpowered the bad guy but then the bad guy escaped... chase through the streets on foot ensued, good guy carying gun... ended up with good guy arrested and very nearly nailed to the wall. I think eventually he got off with a warning or probation or some such. Where he went wrong was stepping foot outside his own door, IIRC. No, there's a big difference these days between what is "right" and what is legally "safe".

[movie zombie]

however, if said friend and you retreated into the safety of your home and the thug/thugs tried to break in and you'd already called 911, they manage to get a foot through the door, would you be then in a self-defense situation and therefore able to demonstrate to the DA that you'd taken measures to de-escalate the situation, were unsuccessful, and were defending yourself?


movie zombie

[BillCA]

ok so i live in san francisco and as many of you know we dont have lawns. so, hypothetical situation. what if somebody were visiting me and some thugs approach him in an attempt to rob him. if i were to run out with a firearm in hand what repercussions would i be worrying about?
brandishing a weapon?
or would it constitute self defense in this liberal city?

You mention thugs... plural. That changes the odds for your visitor and legally could be considered a felony assault if they get physical.

If you see no weapon, standing on your porch with your gun tucked behind you or in a pocket might tip the odds enough that the bad boys don't want to play that game.

If, however, a weapon is present, from a "blunt object", knife or gun, then the dynamics change. If the visitor is threatened with the weapon, you are witnessing a felony and under the law have legal recourse to intervene on behalf of the victim. If it's an obvious mugging you are attempting to stop a felony, as permitted by California law.

The big point here is articulating that your visitor was actually threatened with the weapon. Otherwise the thugs will say "We was just asking for some coin, y'know what I'm sayin? An' my buddy was just carryin' a tire iron he found, no big deal, y'know?" And of course the DA will claim that there was no felonious threat to justify the presence of lethal force.

As a form of CYA, you might write to the City of SF, police communications division and ask some questions. The pertinent questions would be;
- What is the average time for a 911 operator to collect enough information before a call can be dispatched?
- What is the average time for the above for a crime-in-progress call?
- For crimes in progress, what is the average time between the 911 operator forwarding the information and a police unit being dispatched?
- What is the average response time in S.F. to a crime-in-progress call?

IF the city actually answers those questions you have the ability to show official answers and time requirements. Thus a DA arguing you should "just call 911" can be rebutted by showing in the time it would take for police to respond it the crime would be over.

[ohsmily]

Stop. Just ask yourself, "were you or anyone else in fear for your life or serious bodily injury?" If yes, lethal force is appropriate. HOWEVER, I would be VERY careful about ever using a gun in the city of San Francisco. With that said, if you are truly afraid that your friend was about to be killed or SERIOUSLY hurt, then you really only have one choice, which is to defend him. If you think he is just getting his wallet taken and they aren't acting violent (to your perception) or otherwise threatening him, why not just let them get the wallet....it is a small price to pay to avoid possibly getting charged with murder in that f'ed up city.

[Beelzy]

In San Francisco??

You will fry, in Diane Fienstien's cooking oil.

[Army]

If they do not have anything that constitutes a weapon, and have not acted in any physical way, then you are in big trouble. They can claim they were asking for Boy Scout donations, when you stuck a gun in their faces.

Club, knife, gun, bat, chain etc. showing and at the ready? No problem with you bearing arms in defense of others.

No weapons showing, but your buddy just got hit or kicked? No problem with you bearing arms in the defense of others.

You cannot initiate, but you can fully act against.

[sorensen440]

I have always felt that if worried about court then its not time to escalate.

[Hamster16]

i was wondering about a similar situation that i cannot see any thing in the law about. what if a dog is attacking my son and i decide to run and grab my gun to stop this dog from hurting my son can i legally kill it with a gun. i only worry about this because i have a neighbor with a pitbull. it seems like everyone wants to own pitbulls in my area lately so i see this as a real possibility.

[M. Sage]

I live in the city too and wonder about these things all the time. Could it even be considered self defense if it's your guest that was in danger, and not you....until you ran outside?

If anybody is clearly in real danger due to a violent felony, you should be "safe" in helping them out.

I have always felt that if worried about court then its not time to escalate.

The problem is that people will get stuck in a loop worrying if they're acting too early.

In this state, even when you're clearly in the right, civil court at the least is always going to be a worry. It doesn't matter if you have a signed statement from the flame thrower-wielding guy you just shot stating that he's going to burn you to a crisp and video of the attack from five different angles, odds are good you'll still get dragged into a civil trial for "negligently" wounding/killing your assailant and have to shell out money shutting him/his family up.

[sorensen440]

i was wondering about a similar situation that i cannot see any thing in the law about. what if a dog is attacking my son and i decide to run and grab my gun to stop this dog from hurting my son can i legally kill it with a gun. i only worry about this because i have a neighbor with a pitbull. it seems like everyone wants to own pitbulls in my area lately so i see this as a real possibility.

If a dog is attacking your child yes you can shoot it.

[sorensen440]

The problem is that people will get stuck in a loop worrying if they're acting too early.

In this state, even when you're clearly in the right, civil court at the least is always going to be a worry. It doesn't matter if you have a signed statement from the flame thrower-wielding guy you just shot stating that he's going to burn you to a crisp and video of the attack from five different angles, odds are good you'll still get dragged into a civil trial for "negligently" wounding/killing your assailant and have to shell out money shutting him/his family up.

I agree but if someone's life is in actually in danger I'm not going to think about if I am in the legal right or not.

[M. Sage]

I agree but if someone's life is in actually in danger I'm not going to think about if I am in the legal right or not.

The problem is, that's not everybody. Decisiveness is kind of hard when the adrenaline kicks in and blood loss becomes a real possibility, too.